Interview of Hank Zimmerman
Transcript Number 119

This interview is with Mr. Hank Zimmerman of "E" Company 506th of the 101st Airborne Division, during World War II and he has graciously allowed us to conduct this interview about his experiences in World War II. 

INTERVIEWER: If you could just share with us a little bit about when you entered the service, what branch of service you entered, and where you entered the service on what date. You can just go from there and tell us all about it.

ZIMMERMAN: When the war broke out with Japan and they attacked Pearl Harbor, I wanted to get into it quick like a lot of us young people did. I was seventeen at that time. I asked my father if he would sign for me and he said, "No, no, it's too dangerous," so I had to wait until they drafted me. So when they drafted me and I went for my physical, I worked for Phelps-Dodge Copper Parts in New Jersey and they had these candy machines all around the walls, and I was always chewing on a bar of candy, so when I went for my physical they told me I had too much sugar in my urine, we can't take you. This happened three or four times. The last time I went over there they said, "I can't help you, you've still got too much sugar in your urine." I said, "What in the hell do I have to do to get in this army?" He asked me if I wanted to go that bad and I said, "Yes!" He said, "You're ready." So how he picked me for the Army, we were in a line and every other one was Army, Navy, so I happened to get the Army. I was hoping to get Navy, but I got the Army. I'm glad I did really. They took us down south here to Spartanburg, South Carolina, Camp Croft at the time, and I was there two or three months, something like that for my basic training. One of the guys came running in the barracks one day saying, "Hey, they want volunteers for the paratroops." I said "Yeah?" I was always one for a lot of excitement so I ran over and I enlisted, and took, oh I can't think of the name in Georgia, Fort Benning, and I took my parachute training there. As soon as that finished, over to Europe I went. They put you through some kind of training there, I tell you.

INTERVIEWER: Could you share with us a little bit your memories of the training? What that specialized training, infantry training, jump school, was tough stuff, right?

ZIMMERMAN: It was tough, they were tough on you, yes. But it was for our own good, really. We used to run ten miles every morning, ten miles, running. It took awhile for me to do it, but I did it. Then, they used to have a rope where you climbed that rope and you had to do it just with your hands and arms, no feet. You help 'em down on that rope, it took us awhile to do that, but you toughen into it. Then they had us, like, jumpin' in swamps over the right and overhead. A lot of slime and mud and everything, and we had to do pushups. Going through jump school, the Sergeants are the boss, no matter whether you're a general, colonel, or whatever, like this one major spit in the sawdust, and the sergeant said, "Major, pick that up in your hands and run around this area saying, 'I will be a good major, I will not spit in the sawdust any more,'" and that actually happened. As far as the parachute training, they had a couple of towers there. They'd take you up like two hundred feet and when you reached the top, it automatically reaches and pulls the 'chute open, it's in a round hoop-like, and they drop you. It takes your breath away until you learn how to handle your 'chute. Then you had the buddy 'chute where two went at a time. Matter of fact we had a reunion there one year and I took my wife up there and didn't tell her that when we reached the top it releases itself.

INTERVIEWER: Oh! (Laughter.)

ZIMMERMAN: When you reach the bottom, boy, you loop the loop. But, we reached the top and when that thing releases, ohhhhhh! (Laughter.)

INTERVIEWER: And you get surprised.

ZIMMERMAN: You get surprised, yeah, but we liked it. That was most of it about basic training. Then you headed overseas.

INTERVIEWER: No hesitation, any break or time to go back to your family to visit, or anything like that?

ZIMMERMAN: No, you usually had a furlough before that, but that's when I joined the 101st. They had just come back from Holland and were in a rest area there. I got there maybe about two or three weeks before Thanksgiving, and I walked in the barracks and this one guy, he was half Indian, was holding down this knife, and I looked at that and thought, "Oh, my god, if any fight against that." (Laughter.) But, we were there about two or three weeks. One morning we woke up early in the morning, and we go out and they were throwing ammunition at us and what not. "Get on the trucks, get on the trucks." "What's goin' on?" We didn't know what was going on. So they didn't have time to go to planes with jumping, we was all in these big cattle cars like, and it was cold. I'll never forget it, how cold it was. But, we grabbed what clothes we could, overcoat and stuff. We threw them out right away because they were too clumsy, but we didn't know where we were going until we were on the way, then they told us that the Germans broke through in the Argonne, and we were to stop them supposedly. We were going in, we were walkin' in after we got off the trucks. The civilians were saying, "The Germans are coming! The Germans are coming!" One of the guys piped up, "Yeah, we know, we're the reception committee." Some of the soldiers that fought - a lot of them were green troops who were stationed there - they were having a ball. They figured the war was just about over. But they came through there and they were so shook up, they had no rifles or anything, they didn't stop there, they ran. We felt sorry for them. There were a couple of areas we went in, we'd dig in and trying to dig into that ground that was just plain ice, we didn't get very far. But, it's just very vivid. I wouldn't want my kids or any other kids to go through what we did in that battle.

INTERVIEWER: What was your rank while you were in the service?

ZIMMERMAN: Pfc.

ZIMMERMAN: Pfc.

INTERVIEWER: Pfc? Is that the rank you got out as, when you got out of the service? Pfc?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Classified as infantry, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Airborne infantry. Our job, a lot of it was to drop behind enemy lines, disrupt everything. Like D-Day when they jumped 'em into Normandy, I wasn't there. Like I said, I was too young. That was chaos. A lot of those pilots in the C-47's that they jumped out of, they panicked. The Germans flooded the area down and a lot of the guys drowned. It was chaotic. They hooked up, they said, once in awhile they'd run into an 82nd Airborne guy and they all fought together that way until they got organized, but they did do what they were supposed to do, knocked artillery pieces out for the D-Day landing, helped them and all that. 

INTERVIEWER: Sir, you said that you were drafted into the service, but after you tried to get into the Merchant Marines at the first. How old were you when you were drafted.

ZIMMERMAN: I was eighteen. 

INTERVIEWER: Eighteen?

ZIMMERMAN: I was eighteen. As soon as I turned eighteen it didn't take the draft board long to give your notice. 

INTERVIEWER: What year was this?

ZIMMERMAN: 1942, late '42 is when it was. Then in early '43 I came down here to Camp Croft.

INTERVIEWER: For the training. How did you feel about the draft. Was it pretty much, I guess the question was it fair? Everybody needed, it was a necessity at the time.

ZIMMERMAN: It was a necessity, yes. Really, they didn't even need the draft. Guys were lined up signing up to go.

INTERVIEWER: Wow! Really, just commitment, patriotism.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. Country comes first. Anybody that could do what the Japs did, attack, we were really mad. That's why we wanted to go, to get even.

INTERVIEWER: Could you describe the process by which you were inducted into the military, the process of going from a civilian to the military, the basic training, how they brought you in, shaved your hair, uh, things like that.

ZIMMERMAN: They brought us in. All we did was what we were told to do. We were disciplined. Back then, that was another thing, the soldiers, even the inductees going in were more disciplined than a lot of them are in this modern era. It's like I keep reading things about this modern army, what they were doing and what not, we'd have been locked up or somethin'. If we did what they did, we had more discipline. We were told to do something and we did it. 

INTERVIEWER: Sort of , the drill sergeant says, "Jump!" and you say, "How high?" Right?

ZIMMERMAN: That's right. 

INTERVIEWER: Let's see, this is kind of a long question, but, you talked about taking your basic training in South Carolina. What type of training did you receive? Drilled on ceremony, rifle marksmanship, bayonet? Did you receive all of those basics? Did you receive one specific weapon?

ZIMMERMAN: The M-1, and that was my weapon anyway. A lot of the guys had the BAR, they had a small tripod on the front and were automatic. The M-1 was that too, and thank god for that, but that BAR, 30 caliber machine gun, light machine gun, 50 caliber, and then grenades. I practiced with a rifle grenade too. You put that butt in the ground and put it up and lob it. You judged for the distance.

INTERVIEWER: Is that sort of like a mortar?

ZIMMERMAN: Somethin' like a mortar, yeah. But I never had to use that in battle. I just used a rifle. We always had that thing that you never knew when you was gonna need it.

INTERVIEWER: Did you feel that the training you received, or when you first went into basic training, after you went overseas, did you feel that it was adequate to prepare you for what you were ...

ZIMMERMAN: We were prepared when we went over, yes. That told us what they expected, and like I said, two or three weeks after we got there, just like that, the Battle of the Bulge started. We didn't have much time for training or anything, but we were well trained here in the States.

INTERVIEWER: And of course you volunteered for specialized or hazardous duty in the Airborne Infantry, and we talked about that training. Did you receive any other specialized training after jump school, such as demolitions training, or...

ZIMMERMAN: No.

INTERVIEWER: So then you finished jump school and then you went overseas immediately.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. They needed replacements. After that horror they lost a lot of men in that Hell's Highway battle, and they were just waiting for replacements to come in. They weren't out of hauling too long when that Battle of the Bulge started. 

INTERVIEWER: Were there other units? What other units? You were with the 101st Airborne Division. Were there other divisions or units that were kinda like with your unit or beside it?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, a tank group was there with us, and I guess they had a few of the guys pushed back from the beginning of the Bulge and some of them stayed with us. The ones that didn't panic, because I remember they had tank destroyers. I guess that was about it.

INTERVIEWER: And you said that your primary weapon was the M-1.

ZIMMERMAN: The M-1. Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: What was your opinion of that, that weapon?

ZIMMERMAN: It was a great rifle. That rifle helped win the war. The Germans still had that old bolt-action. As a matter of fact, my father-in-law, he was in World War I, and he brought one of them home from World War I, and it's just about the same rifle that they used in World War II. 

INTERVIEWER: They just had a lot of problems with it; was it prone to jamming or something like that?

ZIMMERMAN: I don't know. It just wasn't right. I never used it, you know, and any German rifles laying around, you don't touch 'em, 'cause a lot of times stuff like that was booby-trapped before they went back.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, I see.

ZIMMERMAN: They booby-trapped a lot of things. (Noise in studio.) We've got ghosts.

INTERVIEWER: Yes. (Laughter.) What type of uniforms did you wear? Was it the same uniform you wore stateside when you went overseas? Just issued?

ZIMMERMAN: No, they had fatigues and our jump boots, we didn't wear them. They were dressier boots. Combat boots, they were thin, but they had straps around the top, in that Battle of the Bulge, they were cold, too. They didn't keep your feet warm at all. That's why we had those burlap sacks tied around our feet to help try and keep our feet warm.

INTERVIEWER: No specialized boots that were available to help in combat.

ZIMMERMAN: No. The clothing we had was not really meant for that weather either. It was too light. We stayed warm the best we knew how. That's why we had those burlap sacks. Thank God for them. When that battle ended, a lot of guys lost their feet. They were just frozen.

INTERVIEWER: Wow! Do you think that if the weather had not been so severe, would that have drastically changed the situation?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yeah, it would've. Hitler, the weathermen kept him informed of what the weather was gonna be like there, and he waited until that happened, there was fog and everything. You didn't know what was goin' on. The Air Force couldn't fly, people couldn't depend on the Air Force any more, so we were shelled quite a bit with artillery. (Sigh.) Hitler took advantage of that.

INTERVIEWER: How was your supply system as far as being able to get hot chow or just C-Rations or K-Rations.

ZIMMERMAN: K-Rations.

INTERVIEWER: K-Rations. Could you share with us a little bit about your food? 

ZIMMERMAN: Canned bacon and eggs. Hmph! Everything was canned, everything.
You'd get a couple of little crackers, but we had that every day so we got sick of it, but we managed to stay alive.

INTERVIEWER: Were there any civilians around during this time ... the Battle of the Bulge? Were they friendly?

ZIMMERMAN: The people there were very friendly, and they were, most of the time, living in their cellars because of the shelling and what not. I'll tell you, I think the civilians went through as much hell as we went through. Trying to stay warm and stay alive. We heard about this massacre in Normandy. We made our minds up. No more prisoners after that.

INTERVIEWER: Would you share with us a little about that. I've read about that.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, what the Germans did, they captured these American soldiers. They laid their arms down and everything, they held their arms up, they got 'em all in this one big field there, and they were bunched up there, a couple of the German trucks backed up, the tarp came up and there was a machine gun in the back of it and they just machine gunned 'em. When we heard about that, we said, "No, more prisoners! Don't bring a prisoner in here." 

INTERVIEWER: When you heard about that, do you think that was something that really helped morale, the will to win for the soldiers - things like that?

ZIMMERMAN: We would have fought to the last, no matter what. We wouldn't have given in to it. That's why when the Germans came, when we first found out we were surrounded by the Germans, one of the guys pipes up, "Well, they've got us surrounded. Poor bastards!" (Laughter.) So, that's the attitude we had. We'd have fought to the last. We wouldn't 'uv gave in. We knew it was an important battle. Like I said, that was the major battle of World War II. When they came and asked our general at the time, McAuliffe, wanting us to surrender, the captain took them into the general with the paper saying, "They want us to surrender." The general said, "Aw, nuts!" So the captain asked if the general was going to give them an answer. The general replied he was intending to give them an answer and asked the captain what he should say. The captain said, "General, you've already given the answer. Nuts!" So that's what McAuliffe wrote down. Nuts. They took it back to the German commander, and just before the commander left he said, "What means?" The captain said, "In plain words, it means 'go to hell!'" (Laughter.) All the guys were standin' there knew, and got that answer too. Couldn't fight with a better bunch of guys. (Said with great emotion.)

INTERVIEWER: We'll take a break and I'll check on the tape. I can understand. 

ZIMMERMAN: When you go through something like that you become very close. That's why they named that book, Band of Brothers. When they had a shitty detail, we were always the ones who had to go out and do it. That's why Ambrose wrote that book. 
We really loved one another. We'd have gave our life for each other. We still had to be alert all the time there, though. We had to go out on reconnaissance to see what the Germans were up to. It was a hazardous thing, but every time somebody come around, one of the sergeants or somebody, I always went, most of the time. I enjoyed it, going out with these guys. 

INTERVIEWER: There was a lot of reconnaissance, going out on patrols just to see what ...

ZIMMERMAN: Keep an eye on it there ... just trying to see what they were up to. Christmas Eve they attacked us early in the morning, and I was just sleepin' in the hole yet. We had these fox holes and we had these logs we drug 'em over there on top of the hole, like when there were shells to keep the shrapnel from comin' in on us.

INTERVIEWER: Could you describe what a foxhole is? I think a lot of folks don't know what that is.

ZIMMERMAN: A foxhole, we dug 'em, and it goes down about five feet, four or five feet and it's maybe four feet by six feet, two guys can lay in it. And we drug logs over it. They're still there. One of the guys was over there and he said they were still there, filled up a little bit, but the outline was still there. 

INTERVIEWER: Wow! I'll be.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, still there. The Germans, when they attacked us Christmas Eve though, they were sorta on the stupid side, 'cause they came to this pine grove and they had white sheets over 'em to blend in with the snow, but they didn't think about there being pine trees and they stood out like sore thumbs. So, a lot of them died right there. We didn't lose anybody then. They never tried that again. Then they had Axis Sally there every now and then and she'd be playing big band music and all the 101st just about annihilated, but we're still fightin'. We'd just laugh at, you know? But, they tried every trick in the book to try to get us to get out.

INTERVIEWER: How did you feel about those type of propaganda things where they would play, did it just make you want to fight harder and better? Where they would have the Axis ...

ZIMMERMAN: Nah, we just made fun of it. Matter of fact, when I saw her, there's a picture of us in Austria, there, him and I used to sing at the top of our voices and harmonize like the Mills Brothers, you know, "Paper Doll" or something so the Germans would hear us. Just to let them know they're not getting' to us. (Laughter.)

INTERVIEWER: I betcha that in itself probably made them think about it. I'll get that picture of your sarge and you, if you could just hold that up and share it with us and I'll get a picture of that on video. (Pause.) Hold it a little bit closer. Who were these - where were these pictures taken?

ZIMMERMAN: This one was taken in Austria, Zellamsee, Austria, in 1945. It was either January or February of 1945. This one here is Popeye Wynne, a buddy of mine. Everybody had nicknames there. He was Popeye, I was Zimmie, so (laughter).

INTERVIEWER: Okay, thank you.

ZIMMERMAN: Do you need these anymore? 

INTERVIEWER: Yes, I appreciate it. I'm going to put those on there and include those in on the project.

ZIMMERMAN: Okay.

INTERVIEWER: Could you share the story again that you were telling me about your sergeant, about being a jokester and about the tricks you would play on one another. I guess just how you helped pass the time and about the camaraderie and friendship.

ZIMMERMAN: Well we were stationed in this, I forget - can't think of where it was, but we were in tents at the time. One place we were, we found this woman's red wig and lipstick and dresses and everything, so we just put a heck of a - in these tents we were thinking, "Gee, it would be a nice joke to play on Kaiser to dress up as a woman." So that's what we did. We dressed them up as a redheaded woman, lipstick and dress. My friend turned out to be a good lookin' woman. We were drinkin' a glass of beer and the guys would say, "Hey, introduce me! Introduce me!" If they'd of found out what we did, they'd of killed us. (Laughter.) Anyway, that's the way he was. One time we were in these sleeping bags, in other words, we called them 'fart sacks.' (Laughter.) We took the powder out of a grenade and we were all in these fart sacks and just about the time we got to sleep, he threw this grenade on the floor and rolled it in. Someone hollered, "Grenade!" You never saw any guys get out of those fart sacks so fast. (Laughter.) We got out of them things and out of that door, and he was standing outsider about to bust a gut laughing at us. (Laughter.)

INTERVIEWER: I'm sure the guys, you know ...

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, they got a hold of him. It was somethin'. That's the kind of guy he was. We had a lot of fun. That time we had good times. Like when we were chasing the Germans through Berchtesgaden. We stopped in Berchtesgaden, Germany, for a break, and the sergeant sent us out to see if we could dig up some transportation. We went lookin' and we found an American staff car, but the Germans took the wheels off of it. We found Hitler's bus, which, by the way was some bus. It had everything in it, like a home. Then we came across this car. We couldn't get it started - none of them could we get started. So, we go downtown and we came to this firehouse and we looked at one another and said, "Let's see what they got?" We walked inside and this fire engine was in there. So we stripped it down, took all the hose off, and backed it out of there. We were going through the main drag of the town and blasted the horn going through. Sergeant looked at us, and said, "What the hell you come back with that for?" We told him it had four wheels and it run, but we wound up takin' it back. (Laughter.) A couple of guys dug up motor cycles. We were right across from Hitler's hideaway there, and we were told, "No looting, no looting!" So what did they do? They go in. They get Hitler's silverware - they cleaned it out.

INTERVIEWER: How long were you there, in that area?

ZIMMERMAN: We were there maybe 'bout a, mmm, I guess about a week or so. We ran across this one place that had a cellar full of three- star Cognac. Sarge said, "Now, keep it quiet. Don't tell anybody. Don't tell the officers at all." Next day it was all gone. Somebody opened their mouth. The officers, they could ship stuff home, so we couldn't.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay.

ZIMMERMAN: So, we figured that's where it went, the officers. How, I don't know, but where else could it have gone? 

INTERVIEWER: We'll go back to, what was your opinion of the chow, and those who prepared it. Did you have occasion - I know you told me you had C-Rations or K-Rations.

ZIMMERMAN: K-Rations.

INTERVIEWER: K-Rations, and you said a little bit about those. Did you ever have a chance to get - were there cooks who could make you hot meals? Did you have an opportunity to get those a lot, or was it rare?

ZIMMERMAN: All the while we were in that boat we didn't know what a hot meal was. All K-Rations. We could get a hot cup of coffee in the morning, a tin cup of coffee. Some of the guys would put snow in it and build a small fire that couldn't be seen and heat enough water from the melted snow to make a cup of coffee. And that's what we had to go through just to get a cup of coffee.

INTERVIEWER: Wow!

ZIMMERMAN: So, that's the only hot stuff we could get.

INTERVIEWER: After that time period, when you were in Austria sort of on break, did you get better meals? Were there ...

ZIMMERMAN: No, that's when we were out to see about our supply lines. Up in the mountains they had these mountain goats. They sent us out to see if we could get some of them.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, uh.

ZIMMERMAN: I got one. It was a lucky shot. I saw one, you know, and I crawled down on my stomach and took a snap shot and grazed him and knocked him down. Just as we got up to him, he started coming to again, so I had to give him another shot. I don't know if they got any more than that or not. Where we were is where I got a little sick. One time we had eaten a meal and we finished and we started out of the building and we see these couple of kids around the garbage can, digging in the garbage cans looking for something to eat. So I just did an about face and filled my tray up again and went out and split it up among them. I mean ever since then I see waste and - well, I'd better not say anything - the tape and all, but when I see waste, it really hurts. My mind goes back to those kids digging in the garbage cans.

INTERVIEWER: A lot of civilians who at that time who were foraging for what they could get and not a lot?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. We were lucky that we had a butcher with us, and there were a couple of cows out there, and we got one of them, killed it, and hung it up in the cellar, so we had meat.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay.

ZIMMERMAN: The way I understand it, later on the government paid for it, but you had to scrounge any way you could to get something to eat, really, because we had outpaced our supply lines. The Germans were really movin' out then. I'll tell you in that Battle of the Bulge it was close. We were down to our last few rounds of ammunition for the Howitzer and the artillery. If that weather hadn't cleared up when it did, we'd have been using bayonets. Luckily, the weather cleared up and we got the supplies we needed. We knew it was over then.

INTERVIEWER: How was the leadership of the officers and the non-commissioned officers? What was it like? Your lieutenants and your captains and your majors, and also your sergeants? Was there anything that you particularly remember, good or bad about these leaders? Any specific memories.

ZIMMERMAN: Myself, personally, I didn't have anything against any of them, really. They were only doing their job. I know some of the officers, we used to call them ninety-day-wonders. They came in and tried to make a name for themselves right away, you know. That was petty stuff. During the battles, we had no problem with them. I only did what I was told and that was it.

INTERVIEWER: Did you have any problem with any of these questions?

ZIMMERMAN: No.

INTERVIEWER: I don't know if any of them apply. A lot of them may apply to later wars where there were more occurrences. Were there any occurrences that you might have heard of? There was a term called "fragging," in which there were bad officers. Mostly, what I understand, there was unity throughout the unit. That everyone watched each other's back. Do I understand that right from my reading, etc.?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. No, I never heard of anything like that in the 101st. I've heard about people, guys who get out of the army and what not, but we didn't think about anything like that. 

INTERVIEWER: What was your opinion of folks who would do things to get off the line, like shoot themselves in the foot or something?

ZIMMERMAN: We figured they were just cowards. Anybody who would do that to get out of it, we had no use for, really. 

INTERVIEWER: Were there a lot of occurrences in your unit?

ZIMMERMAN: No. I never heard of anything like that in my unit. Before we went over, maybe, you know, guys that didn't want to go over, but it didn't happen that I know of after we got overseas. If anything like that happened, I don't know about it.
INTERVIEWER: How disciplined, overall, was your unit? What were the most common infractions and how were they punished. What was the difference in the behavior of the men in your unit in combat versus in garrison, you know, during training? Things like breaking the rules, getting in trouble - KP and things like that.

ZIMMERMAN: It all depended on what rules they were. Some of the rules like, they'd punish you, like you'd go AWOL - not while you were up there on the line - I'm talking about before we went into battle. Some might go to Paris and come back late, you know. Then the punishment would be KP or something like that. During wartime I never heard of anyone going AWOL or anything like that while we were on line.

INTERVIEWER: During R & R (rest and relaxation), going to Paris or something, the guys might have a little too much to drink or something like that and not make it back on time?

ZIMMERMAN: I met a girl over there in one of those places and she asked me if I'd marry her. I said, "What?" She told me she'd pay me to marry her and then when we got to the States she'd divorce me. She just wanted to get to the States. I said, "Okay, where's your money?" (Laughter.) 

INTERVIEWER: We talked a little bit about it, but how did you spend your time off as far as recreation. Did you have an opportunity to travel? You mentioned Paris. Was there maybe anywhere else in Europe and were there any USO shows that you guys got to see during your time there after the Battle of the Bulge and things like that?

ZIMMERMAN: No, we'd go out on leave and things like that, but that's all.

INTERVIEWER: You pretty much stayed close to where your unit was at that time?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. A couple of us, a buddy and I went to Brussels, Belgium, on a furlough one time. We enjoyed it. Brussels is a nice city, but that's the only place I went while I was over there - that and Paris.

INTERVIEWER: Paris was after Austria?

ZIMMERMAN: No, it was before we went to Austria. Yeah. That's the first time I was up the Eiffel Tower, during the war.

INTERVIEWER: Wow! What was that like?

ZIMMERMAN: That was a piece of work, I'll tell ya. It's art. You get up there at the top of that thing, you can see all over Paris. We went over for the 50th anniversary of D-Day, my wife and I, went up on the Eiffel Tower and ate up there. They have a restaurant up there. At the time I was on medication so I couldn't have wine or anything alcoholic to drink. So, for the meal they came out with big glasses of wine. She drank the whole darn thing. (Laughter.) So when we left I had to help her down the steps. (Laughter.)
INTERVIEWER: That's awfully high up.

ZIMMERMAN: No, the restaurant was on the first floor. It wasn't too bad. If we'd been on the top I'd have had a job getting her down. They have an elevator that goes up and down.

INTERVIEWER: Really. That's interesting. 

ZIMMERMAN: That was the second time I was in the Eiffel Tower. 

INTERVIEWER: The first time was during the war. How would you characterize the overall health of your unit? Was the medical care that you got adequate? What was your opinion of the medics that were in your unit?

ZIMMERMAN: We had good medics. Yes, I have no complaints about medics. If you got wounded they were right there, no matter what. At the Battle of the Bulge, people got wounded, they were short on supplies or what not, they did the best they good for the guys. That helped. I give the medics a lot of credit. What hurt most was seeing some of your friends dying, and they stacked them up like cordwood. They couldn't get them out then.

INTERVIEWER: Because of the situation, you weren't able to evacuate wounded?

ZIMMERMAN: No, they couldn't. 

INTERVIEWER: What did you know about the general war situation before you entered the service and while you were in the service? How did you find out about it?

ZIMMERMAN: Newspapers or news, when Hitler was going through Europe, taking country after country, and I kept an eye on what was going on. I figured, sooner or later, we'd be getting into it.

INTERVIEWER: The other day I had a veteran share with me that when they went to the movies, that always before the movies there was information about what was going on.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, at that time they had news at the movies about what was going on in the world. They kept the American people up to date on it.

INTERVIEWER: Here in the library we have a lot of posters that were from that era. Were those things like the Uncle Sam, "I want you for the U.S. Army," the ones that told folks to watch what they say because of spies being in the area. Were those things that you saw at the Post Office? Were those up and very visible during that time?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yeah. Buy bonds. Back then they were pushing bonds to help finance the war. 
INTERVIEWER: When you arrived overseas, after you finished training school, did you have any period of time - you said you were only there two or three weeks before the Battle of the Bulge.

ZIMMERMAN: That's when I joined the 101st, but I landed in England. I was stationed in England for two or three weeks before they shipped us out. We had furloughs there. We didn't do too much training at all.

INTERVIEWER: No additional training. I guess that's where I was going. Did you have any additional training to acclimate yourself to that area?

ZIMMERMAN: No, no. We really didn't need it. They trained us so well, I mean the paratroopers, rangers, whatever, they got the real tough training. When we went over there, boy, I didn't have an ounce of fat on me. Nothin' but muscle and bone.

INTERVIEWER: Gristle, as someone told me the other day. Ready to go.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, right.

INTERVIEWER: How did you get from England to your unit?

ZIMMERMAN: They flew us over in sequence.

INTERVIEWER: Okay, you didn't jump in, right?

ZIMMERMAN: No, they flew us over to where the outfits were stationed.

INTERVIEWER: Did you know what German you were fighting against? Was that information available, as to what regiment?

ZIMMERMAN: At the Battle of the Bulge we had everybody against us. We fought 'em all, German paratroopers, the SS, and their regular common soldier. The regular common German soldier, I feel anyhow, I don't know how the other guys felt, but I figured they didn't want that war same as we didn't. We didn't want the war, but if they didn't fight, they'd have shot 'em. They had to go in the army. That's the way it was back then in Germany. Those young guys would have refused to go in the army, they'd have killed 'em. That's the way it worked. In a way, we sorta felt sorry for the regular German soldiers, but the German paratroopers and the SS, we had no use for, and we kicked their butts a couple of times.

INTERVIEWER: What was your impression of the German tactics and the weapons? Were they well organized, from what you could tell"

ZIMMERMAN: The Germans were good soldiers. They were tough, but I think the difference was that if you're fighting for your freedom, you're better than they are. So, that's what I thought about it. Another thing that determines how a soldier fights, if they lost their leader they were confused. There was nobody to step in and take over. The Americans, if somebody got shot or wounded, somebody would step in and take it over. That was the difference in the armies. They didn't train their soldiers about what to do if their leader was wounded. They didn't know what to do.

INTERVIEWER: I've read that during the late part of the war that the Germans resorted to using a lot of younger kids, you know. Did you see any of those?

ZIMMERMAN: The Battle of the Bulge, they used anybody that could walk and hold a gun - young kids about thirteen or fourteen years old. They even used older men, anybody who could walk and hold a gun.

INTERVIEWER: Did that affect your unit in any way, when you would see who you were fighting against?

ZIMMERMAN: Not when they had a gun in their hands. If they had a gun in their hands they were the same as anybody else. You either kill or be killed. That's the way it is. 

INTERVIEWER: I understand. We talked about particular hardships and shortages that you faced while you were there, such as your boots not being adequate for the weather conditions. Was there anything else that really sticks out as far as things you didn't have that really could have benefited your unit - you and your fellow soldiers' ability to get the job done. You did the job so well, but was there anything more that could have helped, better boots, better equipment?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, the main thing was the boots. They have stuff today like insulated boots and what not. It would have been no problem, really. My feet were halfway frozen and after I got home, in the wintertime, the first thing that got cold would be my feet.

INTERVIEWER: What would you guys do to try to protect your feet? I know that when I was in the service they always told us to change our socks, no matter what, you always change your socks as much as you can. Were there things you could do?

ZIMMERMAN: We didn't have time to pack clothes or anything to take with us. We just grabbed a rifle, ammunition and everything and got on the trucks. There was not much time for thinking.

INTERVIEWER: You basically had one pair of socks, one pair of boots?

ZIMMERMAN: That's about it. One night one of the guys took his boots off and put 'em outside the foxhole. Next morning they were gone.

INTERVIEWER: Icicles.

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yeah, but that's a bad thing to do, too. Leave your boots on 'cause you could never know what kind of emergency there might be - that Christmas Eve they attacked us, and you wouldn't have time to put boots on then.

INTERVIEWER: So you're ready to go at all times.

ZIMMERMAN: Right. Even your rifle. You had to keep it up next to your body to keep the bolt from freezing. If that bolt action froze, the rifle was useless.

INTERVIEWER: Were there any problems, I believe I read also folks in that cold weather, touching exposed metal with their hands? Was that ever a problem? I mean just uh ...

ZIMMERMAN: No, not with us. We did have gloves and it wasn't really that cold that your hand would adhere to the metal, you know. But it was cold! (Laughter.) When we have our reunions that's the first thing we talk about is that damn winter. Matter of fact we had a Belgium student here for one year, and I happened to be coming out of the bedroom and she was in the kitchen talking to my wife. She remarked that it didn't get that cold in Belgium, and I thought she couldn't tell me that. It just happened to be the coldest winter in the century that year.

INTERVIEWER: Timing. It's interesting how things, the timing ...

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yeah.

INTERVIEWER: During combat, were there situations after battles, were there occurrences of folks taking things from dead German soldiers?

ZIMMERMAN: There were some occurrences, yes.

INTERVIEWER: Like guns, pistols, things like that.

ZIMMERMAN: Like I said before, you take a chance, because a lot of that stuff was booby-trapped. They expected American soldiers to pick something up for a souvenir. So a lot of times they were booby-trapped. Some guys were killed like that. I stayed away from anything like that. I did have a Luger once, but I happened to find it by itself, so I looked it over careful before I even touched it. That's the only thing I brought home with me, the Luger.

INTERVIEWER: I'm curious to hear what your opinion of the Tiger, the Panzer tanks were? What was that like, or what did you think of those?

ZIMMERMAN: They were some tank, I'll tell ya'. Our tanks would fire and hit them and that stuff would just bounce off of them. They were heavily armored, heavy, and the buns on 'em - our tanks were out gunned. We were out gunned until they started putting that deal with 90's they put on our tanks, then that made the difference. Before that, our tanks were like match boxes. If the Tiger tanks fired on 'em and hit 'em like in Bastone there, where we went for the 50th anniversary, had a couple of tanks on pedestals there, our tanks. You can see the holes in 'em where the shell just went right through. They were some tanks, those Tiger tanks. 

INTERVIEWER: What did you do after you were discharged from the military? Did you take advantage of the GI Bill benefits? Did you just come back home.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I started the GI benefit deal going to auto body repair. I gave it about four weeks. It seemed like they had us on the same thing over and over and over again. It just turned me off and I said, "To heck with it." So I went back to my job at Phelps Dodge Copper Parts, the one I had before. I went over and worked for them for awhile until I was laid off, and when you're laid off there it can be anywhere from eight months to a year. This one time they laid me off and I got this job over at M & M Candy over in North New Jersey, so I started workin' for them, so when Phelps-Dodge called me back after awhile, I asked my wife what I should do. She said to go back to Phelps-Dodge where I could make more money. If I stayed with my job (at M & M), I wouldn't be afraid of lay off. She told me that was up to me since you're the one workin'. So I told her I was going to stick with them. I worked for them for thirty-three years. I was makin' a good week's wage after awhile.

INTERVIEWER: This is going back away from that. What do you think of Hollywood movies, television, and history books, and how accurately they portray what you witnessed during the war? I think back over a lot of the old Clint Eastwood movies. Have you seen "Saving Private Ryan?"

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, that was the only movie that ever showed what war is really like, "Saving Private Ryan." When you see the boats coming in with the troops and they're getting direct hits, and arms and legs are gone. That's the way war was - the actual way it was. A lot of the war movies they showed after World War II were glamorized. They never showed it the way it really was. And the "Brother's" book (Band of Brothers), that's going to be more like it was. Spielburg and Hanks are going to be doing that.

INTERVIEWER: Would you share with us a little bit about that, about the television or mini-series they're going to make using that book?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, while we were in Denver at a reunion, we had Hollywood people there getting our stories. Each one of us told our stories about what went on. Now, in June, they're gonna' have Hollywood people there in New Orleans, too, to interview us further. They expect to make a movie or a mini-series in about 2001. I don't know if it's going to be a movie or a mini series, but it's supposed to be on HBO, so we'll find out then what it's gonna' be. I just hope I'm around when it comes out.

INTERVIEWER: Do you think that'll be a good thing for young people, just all Americans in general, to have a show like that?

ZIMMERMAN: I think it would, a touch of history that a lot of kids today don't know anything about. I've asked young men about the Battle of the Bulge. They never even heard of it, they don't know what it was. There's a lot of them that don't. I don't really see why they took history out of the schools.

INTERVIEWER: Hopefully we can share your experiences with our young people through our project here with the library, so folks can learn more about our history.

ZIMMERMAN: I think a lot more of the younger kids today are mis-using their freedom that we fought so hard for. I mean with the killing, with the guns, and what not. Since the war ended I can't even look at a gun, I hate them, and yet to kill with them - that's another thing. These kids don't have to kill with them. Why do they do that? I mean the television, the movies, filth and violence. Then you wonder what's wrong with the young kids today when they have this on the movies and the television.

INTERVIEWER: I believe that our young folks could benefit and learn to appreciate life in general and the freedoms that we have in this country by studying history, like the young American men and women who sacrificed, made that ultimate sacrifice for myself and everyone else today.

ZIMMERMAN: That's right. It hurts when I see them abusing the freedoms like they're doin'. 

INTERVIEWER: I agree with that. I think more of them should think about the young men that never did get to come back, and experience things ...

ZIMMERMAN: The trouble is, like what Hollywood today and what not, it's all money with them. The filth they're puttin' on and violence. It's just plain money. That's all it is today. They don't care what's happenin' to the young people. That's what irritates me.

INTERVIEWER: I hope that this can do a little bit. It might be ...

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I hope so to. I honestly do.

INTERVIEWER: You shared some of the humorous stories of practical jokes that the sergeants would play or that you would play on one another. Were there any other particularly humorous or particular sad incidents from your time in the service that you remember?

ZIMMERMAN: The only thing that always stuck in my mind was the way that they stacked the bodies like cordwood. To see your friends torn apart, that hurt. 

INTERVIEWER: The later invention of the helicopter was not there to come in and evacuate.

ZIMMERMAN: No, you did the best you could with the wounded. When you're surrounded like that there's no place to go with the wounded and dead. So you've gotta find a place to put 'em and do the best you can. 

INTERVIEWER: Were there things like the evacuation hospitals, like the television show "MASH." Were there field hospitals like that?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, they had hospitals, but we were surrounded and couldn't get out. No way to get 'em out. Ambulances couldn't get through. So it was a blessing when Patton broke through when he did. When he came through, we knew it was over then.

INTERVIEWER: Did you receive any awards and decorations for your service? You've listed them here on my notes. Would you share those with us? You have quite a list there. If you could share the story about how you got those -

ZIMMERMAN: I got the American Campaign ribbon for fighting in Europe, and in the Army of Occupation after the war in Europe. The Bronze Star, the whole unit got that for the Battle of the Bulge, for doing what we did. The Good Conduct medal - you get that for doing what you're told. The European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign ribbon, the Belgium Citation, and the Presidential Unit Citation. 

INTERVIEWER: That was also given to the entire unit, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, and the World War II Victory and the Combat Infantry Badge.

INTERVIEWER: How important were those medals to you? You actually didn't receive a lot of your medals until later, but how important was the recognition for your service? For instance, the Combat Infantry Badge.

ZIMMERMAN: We were all proud of what we got there. We were proud men to begin with. All the units of the Army, Navy, Marines, all thought they were the best outfit. Matter of fact, every time we'd go in a bar and there were a couple of Marines in there, all they had to do was open their mouth and say one thing and everybody would be kicking heck out of one another. Then when it was all over we'd stand there and buy drinks for one another. (Laughter.) Just pride in your outfit, that's what it is.

INTERVIEWER: Where were you and how did you learn about V-E day, the victory in Europe? 

ZIMMERMAN: When I left over there, the war in Europe was over and we were already stationed to go over to the islands to fight Japan. We were already set to go over there after our furlough, so when Truman dropped the atomic bomb and the war ended, we were very much relieved. We got through one, we'd never get through another one.

INTERVIEWER: How did you feel about that after coming out of Europe, with the prospects of going back into it.
ZIMMERMAN: We all said the same thing, "We got out of this one, we don't know about the other one."

INTERVIEWER: You were ready to go and do what you had to do?

ZIMMERMAN: No question about it.

INTERVIEWER: Were you ever wounded, sir?

ZIMMERMAN: No, I was one of the lucky ones, really. I heard 'em go by. Thank God for that.

INTERVIEWER: How was it determined? Who was allowed to come home? I know they had the point system, but you were there past the point system, I think.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I left before that. We were in Marmelon, France, and they came around and asked if anybody wanted to re-enlist for eighteen more months. You could get back to the States quicker. So, a few of us went over and re-enlisted. After I had my furlough at home, then I came down to Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and I spent the eighteen months with the 82nd Airborne.

INTERVIEWER: At Fort Bragg?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And were you at Bragg the whole eighteen months? You didn't have to go anywhere else.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, well we had parades in Baltimore and Washington while I was with the 82nd.

INTERVIEWER: How could you compare your service with the 101st Airborne and then with the 82nd Airborne as far as the same close tightness?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yeah. Airborne is Airborne, I mean it's a very tight-knit group. - anybody to do with Airborne were very close.

INTERVIEWER: It's the same concept as the Marines used, that they have a very close brotherhood.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, like when we came down here to Memphis, a guy from New York was with the 82nd Airborne in '47. That was the year I got discharged from Fort Bragg. He wasn't in the war. I guess he came in in '47, and I used to tell guys that we had to run ten miles every morning in the paratroopers. "Oh, Hank," he said "I never had to run ten miles." I said, "John, you were in the peace time. War time made a big difference." We ran ten miles every morning. That sort of quieted him down a little bit. We used to go over to Fort Bragg for reunions of the 82nd and his wife didn't want to go there anymore. She was up to here with it, 'cause he was all Airborne. So he asked me if I'd go and I said, "Sure, I was with the 82nd Airborne for eighteen months so I'll go with you." One of the guys said you took a real chance going there with that eagle on your shoulder like that. I told him that eagle took care of you guys a long time ago. He busted out laughing. So, Airborne is Airborne, they're all close.

INTERVIEWER: This goes back to service overseas, probably more relevant to the Battle of the Bulge. As far as the psychological stresses, I think they referred to it as shellshock back then, and they call it PTSD, how folks react to being under shelling for a long time and how that affects you. Also, were there any instances of friendly fire? Was that a problem?

ZIMMERMAN: Once in awhile you'd hear something about that, but I don't remember it ever happening to us. Now and then you'd hear of a case of friendly fire or bombs being dropped on our soldiers. It's sad, but these things happen.

INTERVIEWER: You were a replacement when you first came in and I'm sure that you received replacements while you were there. What process is used to bring replacements into the area. How did you feel like you were perceived when you came new into the unit? 

ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's another story.

INTERVIEWER: Did they play practical jokes on you or anything?

ZIMMERMAN: It's not the practical jokes. They hold back first off, when you first join them. In other words you have to prove yourself to them - that you've got what it takes to be one of them. That's how they take you into the outfit. You've gotta prove yourself. When we got there we proved ourselves and they accepted us then - the ones that went in as replacements. It makes a big difference when they accept you. They hold back on you at first.

INTERVIEWER: If you worked with any of the allied troops, what was your impression of them? Did you serve with any Canadian or British troops, Australian?

ZIMMERMAN: They were all good soldiers. Except the English. They were good soldiers, mind you, they always had to stop the war to have their tea. (Laughter.) That's the truth. Around teatime they'd have their tea, but they were good soldiers, yes. The Canadians, Australians, they were all good soldiers. 

INTERVIEWER: Did you have a chance to serve with any of their airborne troops? 

ZIMMERMAN: Well, during the war, no, but when we went over for the 50th, 54th anniversary of D-Day we got together with some of the British paras, and they really threw a bash for us, really. I talked this one English trooper once, some young guy comes in and asks me where he could get the book Band of Brothers. I told him I didn't know of a place around here. Wait awhile and I'll ask this English fellow. I asked the Englishman to come over and talk to him, and I said, "He wants a book of Band of Brothers. Do you know where there's a book store around here?" He said there was and told the kid how to get there. The kid was in his early twenties and was interested in what happened. I'll tell you what, the people over there will never forget the American soldiers over there. I mean, each generation keeps passing down to their children what the American soldiers did for them. When we were there for the 54th anniversary we were crying - we had tears in our eyes, especially those from the Battle of the Bulge. We had young paratroopers there and we were on the end, and we were going on parade. Before the parade started the young kids came running out and grabbed our hands, and we started chokin' up. Then when we were marching in the parade, you know, there were old people on the sidewalk with tears running down their cheeks. "Thank you, thank you!" They were young people back then like we were, and I'll tell you that's when the tears flowed. There was a lot of them had tears in their eyes.

INTERVIEWER: I can understand, or I try to understand. Did you see any famous people during your time in the service? Other than yourselves, 'cause you're famous to me. I mean like Bob Hope or someone like that.

ZIMMERMAN: One. We went over on the Queen Mary when we first went over, and we went over alone, no escort. The Queen Mary was fast back then. All we did was zig-zag all the way across. Mickey Rooney was on the boat too. He was going over to entertain troops, I guess. I never got to talk to him, but I had a glimpse of him one time. Boy, he was short. (Laughter.)

INTERVIEWER: What was the feeling of the troops towards these folks? Like the Bob Hope's and other folks who would come over to entertain the troops?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, they looked forward to these people, really. Like Bob Hope and Bing Crosby, they were somethin' else I'll tell ya. There'll never be another comedian like Bob Hope. I think he was the greatest. Him and Red Skelton. You've heard of Red Skelton?

INTERVIEWER: Yes, yes.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, they had a movie of Red Skelton the other night. That's when he was real young. I think he's gone now, but he was good too. Some of the faces that man made ... (laughter).

INTERVIEWER: I think Jim Carey had Red Skelton as a model.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, he could have copied from Red Skelton. (Laughter.)

INTERVIEWER: Overall, how would you characterize your military service? I believe I know the answer to this, but would you do it all over again?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I would. If our country was jeopardized like it was then, I'd be right there to sign up. Even as old as I am right now.

INTERVIEWER: That's pretty much my questions. I really appreciate you. I guess if we could just end with, if there's one thing that you could say to the young people who will view this video or read your account of your experiences, what would you say to them? To the junior high, the high school kids, kids that are just graduating from high school who are considering going into the service, that may have to serve in the future?

ZIMMERMAN: I'll tell you one thing, it would make a lot of men and women out of the young kids today. It really makes a man outta you. You know right from wrong then too. They teach you discipline. Another thing is religion. Saying a school prayer in school in the morning before classes started, there's nothing wrong with that. Why they took it outta schools, I don't know. That's what's wrong with a lot of our schools today, they took all that out of the schools. Some woman "whack job" that caused all this, really, even her own son told her she was just looking for publicity when she come out with this. How it got as far as it did, I'll never know. There's nothing wrong with saying the Lord's Prayer early in the morning. I think a lot of parents are to blame too. They took the discipline out of the schools. When I went to school I was disciplined. I did something wrong and I went to one man, and that was the principal, and I'd hold my hand out and it got whacked. If my father found out about it I'd get it again. So, that's why the schools are like they are today - all the violence. One of the women I play cards with, she said, "Well I wouldn't let them hit my kid either." I said, "Then you're part of the problem by taking the discipline out of the schools." You've got to have discipline. If you don't have discipline ...

INTERVIEWER: You had mentioned earlier about the discipline that your unit had, that your fellow soldiers had. That's self-discipline - do you think it helped you later on in life?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yes. Yes, I do, and I brought my kids up to that old school too. They're all great today and I'm proud of them. One of them he's a doctor and one daughter, she's got a good payin' job, and the other daughter too got a good payin' job. I'm very proud of all three of them, and I think if a lot of these kids paid more attention to their parents, showed more love towards their parents instead of arguing with them all the time -. Our kids tell us, "You know, Mom, you were always right." They know it now.

INTERVIEWER: You think students could benefit from learning more about the history and the sacrifices that were made by your generation, and the soldiers that went overseas and some of the soldiers that did not come back from overseas.

ZIMMERMAN: All they have to do is go over there and look at all of the white grave markers, those crosses, acres and acres of them. Just stand there and think about how they were all young men at one time, like themselves. I was eighteen. A lot of us were only eighteen when we were fightin'. I hate to see the young people abusing the freedoms that we fought so hard to keep. I wish they'd appreciate 'em more, 'cause really.

INTERVIEWER: Well, Mr. Zimmerman, I certainly appreciate and thank you from the bottom of my heart. You're certainly someone that I'll look up to. Is there anything that you would like to add to this video and this interview before we call it quits, so to speak. Anything you would like to say to your grandchildren?

ZIMMERMAN: I love every one of my grandchildren, every one of them, and I wish them luck growing up and getting their education. I think everybody should have a good education, today. High school is not good enough anymore, it's gotta be college. They drummed that into my kids a long time ago, and thank God they listened. That's about it.

INTERVIEWER: Okay, thank you very much, again.