Interview of Clayton Whitley
Transcript Number 066

Today is the Wednesday the 27th of June, 2001 and we are here at the home of Clayton Whitley as part of the World War II oral history project and Mr. Paul Zarbock will be interviewing Clayton Whitley about his experiences in the service during World War II.

INTERVIEWER: Tell us from the beginning, how did you get into the Army and where were you when you received your draft notice?

WHITLEY: I was drafted in Williamston, North Carolina which is in Martin County and I went to Fort Bragg, NC for induction. Then I went from there to Fort McClellan in Alabama for basic training.

INTERVIEWER: Now what year was this?

WHITLEY: 1940.

INTERVIEWER: Before Pearl Harbor?

WHITLEY: Yup, so I went to Fort McClellan, Alabama for basic training for six weeks. There was six of us selected to go who entered the 26th Division, which is in Massachusetts National Guard division.

Well, we went from Camp Fayetteville to Massachusetts to join the 26th Division. When we got there, there was a big Army school up there. The 26th was not there. No one there knew exactly where they were, so we messed around, did guard duty in the prison until they finally decided where they were at. At that time, they were on the east coast enforcing blackout regulations.

Our duty was to control the beach at night. If we saw any light from the water, we went in and had it blacked out or distinguished whichever came first.

INTERVIEWER: So you slept during the day and worked at night?

WHITLEY: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: Where was your barracks, or were you living on another campus?

WHITLEY: We temporarily set up at Atlantic Beach, Florida, that's about 7 or 8 miles north of Jacksonville Beach. So we were in between Jacksonville and Jacksonville Beach.

INTERVIEWER: What kind of weapon did you carry, an M1 or an O3?

WHITLEY: It was a 906 on a World War II craft. That's what we had. While we were down there, we had a little bit of excitement at one time. They tried to assassinate President Roosevelt in Key West and he traveled by train. He didn't have a plane. Planes were not that popular at the time. We had to go out and guard. They put two guards on every street and road crossing. Put two at every cargo that went under the railroad. We stayed there 24 hours waiting for his train to come by. 

It finally came by, I guess, about 10 or 11 o'clock the second night we were out there. They sent one train ahead of him, a decoy, and his train come along, I guess running 100 miles an hour (laughter). He wasn't losing any time. And that was the biggest thing that we had down there. Well, naturally we had visited a few of the bars and things and if you got light showing outside, black it out or put it out. And a few homes were the same way, but I mean nothing major.

INTERVIEWER: If you saw a light in a home, what did you do? Did you knock on the door and tell them to ....

WHITLEY: Black it out.... Like curtains open.

INTERVIEWER: What about businesses like a bar or a restaurant?

WHITLEY: They had to black out everything too. You could not have any light showing at all on the waterfront. If you could see it from the waterfront, it had to be blacked out, extinguished or something. Even the vehicles had to be blacked out. They had a special light made about 1/2" by an inch square. The rest of the light was blacked out. You could see a vehicle if you got 25 yards on it, but that was about it. Now where were we?

INTERVIEWER: My question was, if there was a restaurant or a barracks, how did you go about blacking them out?

WHITLEY: Well that was up to them, but most of the time when you would walk into the door, you make two or three turns and they had canvas hanging up and you would make two or three turns zigzagging. That's the way they did the black out.

INTERVIEWER: People were cooperative?

WHITLEY: Yeah, very cooperative. That was one time when this country was the United States. Everybody did their part, extend a hand....but as soon as the war was over, it's Pshhhh (downward thumb motion)...everybody looking out for themselves. They were trying to ' hoo-doo ' the next person, it seemed to me like.

INTERVIEWER: Tell me again, what division were you in at that time?

WHITLEY: At that time, the 26th Infantry Division.

INTERVIEWER: That was the Massachusetts National Guard?

WHITLEY: Massachusetts National Guard

INTERVIEWER: What happened after awhile? Did you stay with the division? 

WHITLEY: I was on what they call '"etached service"'. I was officially with that division, but I was working with Army, Army headquarters. That's why I say, I went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for aerial training and aerial observation. That's where they fly the little Piper Cubs, you know, to spot places and called the artillery if they got a target. They would give 'em the coordinates and all. 

Well one morning the first sergeant told me to fall out, put on a Class A uniform and report to headquarters. Army headquarters, not division headquarters. That is where I met General Patton. Everybody that knew the man hated him. There's people that ought to sue him because he was a disgrace, he was a man with no way out. He was gung-ho....he said he went over there to fight a war and that's what he wanted to do, but he was nothing like that movie portrayed him. 

INTERVIEWER: What was he like?

WHITLEY: He was a hard man to describe. I mean, if you did your duty and did just what you were supposed to, he wouldn't tell you to do nothing he wouldn't do himself and I believed him. I have had him to get out and walk in front of the jeep. Well, they call them jeeps now. We called them ' command cars '. 

Wave a white handkerchief at night for me to follow him so we could get radio reception. He'd be down a valley or something another and we'd radio him to have 'em work, and at that time the radio was nothing like they are now. And he would wave a white handkerchief and I'd try to creep along behind him to get better radio reception. So one of the guys, he was sitting in the back seat, he was the radio man and then: " We got it! We got it!" or "Nope, not yet..." or whatever. We would just wander around until we could pick up reception. 

And I mean that's the kind of man he was. Like I say, he got on me several times. He always called me "Whitey", he never called me sergeant. "Whitey", I don't know where he picked up the name and then everybody else picked it up. I was known as "Whitey" (laughter). 

But when we got overseas where we went to North Africa and kept on over there in Italy, we took a little old town, surrounded it and well politics you know is in everything. Politicians wanted the British to take that little old town. They called back and said, uh, ...I don't know exactly what was going on. I knew a whole lot, but the captain told me, said: "We already took that town, you want me to give it back to 'em?....Well no, you were not supposed to take it! The British were supposed to take it, Montgomery. Well, we'll give it back to them. Oh hell, stay where you're at". (laughter). 

I mean he had a lot of respect for higher command, but there was some of them he personally did not like. He personally didn't like Eisenhower. Eisenhower....like I say, he had to have respect for Eisenhower because he was his superior, but as far as liking him, he didn't. I know on several occasions, they butted heads. But Ike always won out because he was the boss. Now when we went overseas, our dress uniform had the long tailcoat. Well, Ike, he designed a short coat. Belt on your waist and all. Well, usually when anything new like that come out, we got it pretty near first. (laughter). 

We were on top of the heap. But those were Ike's tactics. Lieutenant Whelan Jones from Raleigh, North Carolina...well he was Captain Whelan Jones at that time, he was one of Patton's aides. He would say: "General, when are we going to get our short coats? Hell, let Ike wear 'em, he's the one designed 'em. That's the way he felt about Ike (laughter). 

And on another occasion, everybody, they were having a big meeting. That was a little old town in France. I can't think of the name of it. Anyway, just before Saint Lô, France, someone was telling him, "General you're running late and the meeting was going on." And Ike started, he could take all the pictures he needed, he could go ahead. And that's ....I mean, he wasn't disrespectful, but he didn't like him. That's it in a nutshell.

And speaking about Saint Lô now, that was a seaport in France, ..hmmm, well that was a rough time. You know at that time, it was the Army Air Corps, it wasn't the Air Force. The Army Air Corps seized Saint Lô, this seaport or port town...they wanted it. We wanted it and the Germans wanted to keep it. I mean there was mountains all around it, it was more or less bound like....saucer like. And the Air Corps sent in too many cotton pickin' planes. They were bombing our own troops. I don't think (maybe I shouldn't say that), but I don't think that was ever put out, but it really happened. And with the shooting...and they'd shoot back at you....but damn who the hell are you? (laughter). Were they the Germans or us? Well that was kind of a hectic time. 

INTERVIEWER: Did Ike ever talk to you? Were you ever in the room with Ike?

WHITLEY: I was in the room with him, but he never talked to me personally.

INTERVIEWER: Was Ike a tall guy, a short guy or a medium guy?

WHITLEY: Ike was 6 foot.

INTERVIEWER: What about General Patton? What did he look like?

WHITLEY: Well he....I guess he was 5'8" or so. He probably weighed close to 200 pounds. He was not a big man, but he was not a small man either.

INTERVIEWER: Was he kind of a muscular guy?

WHITLEY: Uh, huh.

INTERVIEWER: When you were travelling with the General, where did you eat? You certainly didn't eat with General Patton, did you?

WHITLEY: Most of the time, yeah.

INTERVIEWER: You did!

WHITLEY: Sure.

INTERVIEWER: Who did the cooking?

WHITLEY: They had cooks. A lot of times, we didn't eat, .... I mean a hot meal. You could go three or four or five days without a hot meal, you eat K rations and C, well, when we first went over there, they had what they call K rations and the C rations. The K rations was, well you've seen the Cracker Jack boxes, just about the size of that, wrapped all up in wax and all. You had a little can of potted meat, a little bit bigger than a silver dollar or something like that, ham, chipped ham or eggs.

INTERVIEWER: Cheese?

WHITLEY: Cheese, a bar of chocolate almost as big as a stick of butter, and it was so good, WOW! (laughter). 

INTERVIEWER: Did you have some cigarettes in there too?

WHITLEY: Two cigarettes, or I believe it was three in the pack. It was two or three cigarettes. (There might've been four, I don't remember exactly). But it was a little flat pack with three or four cigarettes.

INTERVIEWER: And some toilet paper in there too. A lot of the GI's would put their toilet paper inside their helmet. Did you do that?

WHITLEY: Oh yeah. I kept all to myself mostly. The vehicle we had, they called it a three-quarter ton command car. And well, we had a little room in there to stash stuff. We stashed a lot of stuff in there, the radio operator and I. We were supposed to have an assistant driver, but we didn't because the old man said: "We don't need nobody else, we can handle it". And we did pretty well. The radio took up the whole back of the seat. I mean they were big, well, obsolete things that they are now. They were as big as that stereo by that center over there. 

INTERVIEWER: They had all sorts of radio tubes?

WHITLEY: Oh yeah. That's what I said. You'd get down in the valley a lot of the times and well, we had one of the best the Army had at that time, but still when you get down in dead space or something, you couldn't hear anything. You couldn't pick up anything. And they also had what they called a remote kit -- you run a telephone line from it into the tent -- or wherever you know, he was at or whatever he was doing there, an operator on the other end of the telephone. But he couldn't transmit, he'd call Carl and give the radio operator the message or whatever.

INTERVIEWER: Were you ever directly under fire with General Patton?

WHITLEY: Oh yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Where was that? And what happened? Do you remember one event particularly?

WHITLEY: Uh, uh....I can't remember where it was, but anyway we were going up.....Let me tell you a funny incident (laughter). You know the fighter planes, they had what they call auxiliary tanks on them, gas tanks. Well, they would use them first and when they were empty, they would just push a button and they'd fall off so they could maneuver better when they got in combat. 

But we were pulling 'em, I think there was three vehicles. We were riding along and somebody hollered: "Boom!". We looked up and we saw this thing coming, I mean it was coming, it looked like right at us. We stopped hard and as quick as we could and hit the side of the road (laughter). That thing hit the ground: "Bong! Bong!" on one of the auxiliary tanks. Well that plane, it come around, come back right over by us as close to us as it could. Wiggled its wings. Well I guess he was laughing at us....bailing out like that. The old man said: "If I had that so and so, I'd break his neck (laughter). I said 'Yep", I'd help you too. 

But, eh, I believe it was on that same trip, we were in some little old town that we were trying to take, and we received artillery fire and small arm fire. The captain said: "Where are they, I wish I could see 'em so I could shoot some too!". Can't see a thing to shoot at. And that is sort of nerve racking. I mean, when you are receiving artillery shells and you can't see nothing, all you can do is draw up into the smallest ball you can and wait for it to be over. But we were under fire like that. Saint Lô and Bastogne, they were the worst two. The Germans nicknamed us the bloody bastards from Bastogne because we were surrounding them. 

If the German intelligence had been up to snuff, they could have wiped us out on several occasions, but we had spotters and we'd know where they were going to attack so we'd put all of our resources there to block them. And if they'd just known at this end that the line over here was practically empty, they had plenty of troops to just walk through, but they didn't know that. And then the 101st Airborne Division dropped in there and kept us out. In other words, get out of this thing, because we were annihilated just about. I say annihilated -- we were completely surrounded. All they had to do was push on in, but they didn't know it.

INTERVIEWER: It was wintertime, wasn't it?

WHITLEY: Oh yeah. Cold, good gosh, I've seen tanks froze to the ground, couldn't move, that's how cold it'd become. The mud and slop and all was starting overnight or something and the next day, they couldn't move. 

INTERVIEWER: You were probably what, 20, 21 or 22 at the time? Buck sergeant?

WHITLEY: Staff.

INTERVIEWER: Staff sergeant.

WHITLEY: Yeah. He busted me a time or two.

INTERVIEWER: He busted you?

WHITLEY: Yeah, the last couple of days.

INTERVIEWER: Tell us about that.

WHITLEY: One time we were....oooh, I can't remember all those little towns, but anyway....in the town, the mayor was called the Beurgermiester. They raised the white flag. Well, we'd send somebody in and tell 'em to collect all the militarian stuff, you know. But the people were not allowed to have cameras or any kind of firearms. They weren't allowed to take pictures of us. He collected it and carried it to his office. We found ______ in the military's personnel. We were going to torch the house. That was standing orders. And some of the guys did one time torch the house and found a bunch of Germans in the cellar. He'd come out and throw the phosphorous grenade in the doggoned place. They didn't stay in (laughter). 

Well you know fight 'em or anything. They found 'em in there, they had orders, I mean they was standing orders. So they come out and throw the phosphorous grenade and the old man, he'd stand there, "You should've known". I told him, I said: "Sir, these people are used to taking orders. If they don't do like Hitler says, what happens? He'd chop their head off and throw it in the trash can". I said: "We give 'em an order and I say we should do the same thing". "Who the hell are you sticking up for? What are you doing? You know more than I do?" "No, sir". "Well, get the hell out of here Private Whitley". 


"Yes, sir". (laughter). I'd had to rip stripes off a couple of shirts. I didn't do 'em all. In two or three days -- "Where your damn stripes at?" I said: "You told me to rip 'em off". 
"Alright, forget that". (laughter). I mean that's the kind of guy he was. 

But I think the worst thing I saw....we went into Normandy, D-Day plus 2. There were bodies floating out there like trash on back at a sea of pea green. I don't think all of them were dead, but I mean there was just no way you could get to 'em because there was shelling and shooting of small arms fire and everything else. Eventually, you know, they were taken up and buried. I mean that was the worst, seeing those bodies.

Oh yeah, something else I just thought about. You know the news media, I think they're a whole lot like doggoned lawyers. But they had all that stink about Patton slapping that man. Well, the news media, like I say they're like lawyers, they see what they want to see. But that's all. The story was never published in the news. Whack! (demonstrating a slap)...he slapped a guy right like that. He said he was trying to make him mad, make him get out of that place. You just wanted it to stop and get straightened out. But as far as being ______ , he was not. And he told the boy, he apologized. 

Alright soldier, I guess you are a chicken then. It's exactly what he's called. I guess you are a chicken since some of us are and we can't handle it. So there's no disgrace. Go on back and fight. But the news did never bring it out. The guy went back in to the front lines --on his own. That's why I say the news media, they're a whole lot like the cotton-picking lawyers who got you on a witness stand. They print and say what they want. That's it. They don't want to hear the rest of the story; I just want this part. 

INTERVIEWER: Were you with the general at the hospital at the time?

WHITLEY: Yes sir, now I was not in the room. 

INTERVIEWER: No.

WHITLEY: But I was in the hallway.

INTERVIEWER: When the General came out, how did he...did he look...what did he look like?

WHITLEY: Well, he looked a little bit frustrated because he knew. They come, I mean they come busting out like the place was on fire, the news media, scattered, going everywhere. I reckon, they were trying to get their story in before anybody else did. Everybody trying to be ahead of the next guy. They didn't even stay to see how long he was going to stay or anything. When that happened, they come busting out the door.

INTERVIEWER: Where was that? Was that in France?

WHITLEY: Yeah that was in France. I say I talked about long enough, don't you all think?

INTERVIEWER: A couple more...What did the General think about the British?

WHITLEY: He was not 'pally wally' with them (laughter), especially the higher ups. Well, like I say, that little town, he and the British, they had a lot of conflict about who was going where and what and all this. Well, like I said too, politics played a whole lot. I mean, just like Berlin. We could've took Berlin a month before it fell. Did Patton try to get 'em to go? No. We promised that to the Russians. And I tell you the truth, now this is my personal opinion, I believe, if we'd a took Berlin, there'd a been a whole lot less casualties. 

We would've lost some men, now. I'm not going to say we could have just walked in, and they'd throw up their hands, we would've lost some men, which I guess is a good thing that we didn't take it. But the Germans, they wouldn't have fallen as bad as they did. We could've taken them prisoners. We might've even got Hitler because the whole German nation feared the Russians. They wouldn't surrender to them because they knew if they did, they'd be sent back and done in just as bad as the Germans were doing the Jews. 

INTERVIEWER: What did the General think about the French?

WHITLEY: He said they wanted to be on the winning side. Along as the damn Germans, excuse my language, as long as the Germans were in control over there...Yes, sir, we love you. We keep the Germans out and -- Oh, yes sir, we love America. They wanted to be on the winning side regardless. 

INTERVIEWER: At the time that the war is over, where were you the day that the Germans surrendered?

WHITLEY: Well, we were in Czechoslovakia. We got orders to stand down and stay where you're at. In other words, be on guard, we think it's over and the next day, he come down and they can sign this agreement. Psssh! That was a hectic time. With the Germans all coming in, we had to find places to put them. We were the nearest outfit to the Russians, and we had to go over the diplomatic crap. Them people, I don't know about now, but they were just stupid barbarians. They didn't know what to do nor where to go. 

INTERVIEWER: Did you drive the general over to meet the Russians?

WHITLEY: Yeah. 

INTERVIEWER: Did they have some sort of celebration or what happened when they met?

WHITLEY: Well, no. It was 30 minutes or maybe a little longer (laughter) and that was over. I didn't go in. I mean there was some big Russian general. But then, I reckon around a week or so later, they had the big celebration. Well, them cotton-picking Russians, they were drunk. When we went over there, they were drunk, running up and down the streets, firing automatic weapons. I guess they had something to celebrate. That was just stupid. They think they can screw that light bulb out of there, carry it home and have lights. Hang it up...I'm not kidding you. That's just how stupid and backward they were. I guess I better watch what I'm saying. The Russians are likely to get hold of this. Who was that so and so? But, it's an honest fact. 

INTERVIEWER: The day that the war was over, did the general say anything to you or did you hear him say anything about 'this is the end of the war'? 

WHITLEY: Well, he seemed to be a little disappointed that the war was no more. Like I say, he was gung-ho, he loved fighting. He said that's what he went over there for and that's what he intended to do. Well, at one time, he told me, he said, " Whitey, do you know what, I heard a good rumor". I said: "What's that sir?" He said,"We might go to Japan". You know, Japan was still fighting at the time. I said: "Woo, are you serious"?
He said: "Well, there is a rumor".

INTERVIEWER: Would he have gone? 

WHITLEY: He would've gladly went. He asked me: "You going away"? I said: "Not if I can get out of it, sir". Oh, you're one of them kind, huh"? "Yup!" And I mean, he'd run on and joke with you like that and all, and that doggoned movie there, well they portrayed him as a hard nose SOB. Well, I get disgusted everytime I see it...my son Tony he loves it, I hate it. 

INTERVIEWER: Where were you when the general had the automobile accident?

WHITLEY: I was back home then. I sort of blame myself for getting out. 

INTERVIEWER: Tell me why.

WHITLEY: Well, if I had stayed over there, maybe it wouldn't happened. We all thought he was an old man, but if we had to have gone to Japan, I'd a done everything in my power to stay with him. If we'd a went, they would've probably split the outfit up. You know the replacements to join some other outfit or something. All the men felt the same way. They would've wanted to go as a solid outfit, not as a replacement for others. But I don't know what they would had any say about that or not because that's left up to Washington. 

INTERVIEWER: What was the feeling of the men that were closest to Patton? What did they think about him? You were close to him.

WHITLEY: I think everybody over there felt about the same way. Oh, you know, to the side though "...that so and so, he's dragging us up here into another doggoned mess". But they went with respect and admiration. 

Well, you heard of 'Belgium Bulge'? We called it ______ break-through, but when they had pulled us back, we had been on the front lines for six months or so. And we had gone back to France for a little bit of rest, clean up our equipment and get some replacements. Before the 2nd Rainbow Division relieved us and they were marching up there in close quarters, smoking, "Boy, you can't do that -- gotta spread out, gotta put them cigarettes out". When we got back to France... a couple of days, we got the news. We got the orders...I was sleeping in the hay barn and we'd sleep warm and bear down in that alfalfa hay. The CQ knew where I was at, at all times, I mean you know like that he'd call, "All right, you gotta go".

I went to headquarters and they were talking and had our map and orders there to meet the Germans and stop them. With the orders we had, they didn't know where they were at. They assumed they had annihilated them with the 2nd Division on the run, proud. And I mean it was so foggy, you couldn't see from here to you. I mean the Germans, a lot of them, two or three tanks went right by us, we didn't know whether they were German or what they were, it was so cotton-picking foggy. In the middle of the night too. 

But that was our orders. Find them and stop them. And we did. And we got the word that the 42nd Division was another horrible sight. It looked like they were lying on others, shoulder to shoulder, machine gunned 'em down. Stripped their shoes off, well they didn't bother with the uniforms, but they took their shoes and their watches, anything they had that was gold. And I guess I shouldn't say this, but he's dead, you can't do anything about it. Like the old man told us, " I can't tell you not to take any prisoners, but let's look down the line and see what happens to prisoners they take." I guess I shouldn't have said that. Like I say, he is gone now and there's no repercussions. 

INTERVIEWER: Look right into the camera. You are now talking to your grandchildren, to your great grandchildren and your great great grandchildren. Tell them what you learned from all of the killing and destruction of property and bravery. What did that all mean to you? What would you tell your grandchildren?

WHITLEY: I'd tell my children to live an honest, decent life and pray to God that our politicians will figure out a way to avoid these things because as the old saying goes -- "War is hell!". There is no glory. There is no fun. There is nothing but misery from day one until the end. So, kids, do your best to keep this old country like it is. Keep it as a United States. Be united. Badger your politicians, keep us out of such crap as this. That's all I got to say.