Interview of Stanley Rehder
Transcript Number 094

OCTOBER 22, 2001 

Good afternoon. My name is Paul Zarbock. We're at the home of Mr. Stanley Rehder in Wilmington, North Carolina. Today's date is the 22nd of October in the year 2001. 


INTERVIEWER: Mr. Rehder, how did you get into the military and what happened after that?

REHDER: Well it was a long shot, I got into the military by being interested in ROTC in high school. Went off to North Carolina State College and enlisted in the ROTC program they had there thinking that I would enjoy the program which I did. Then of course, World War II came along, Pearl Harbor and when that happened, we pretty well knew that we were destined to be called in and sure enough, in March of the next year, which was, well it was a year later, we were called in. We were sent to Camp Walters, Texas, to get our basic Infantry training in which it was a hot season of the year to learn how to be a soldier.

INTERVIEWER: And you ended up as a commissioned officer?

REHDER: Well I had to go back to State College under the AST program while they waited. The Army, you know, takes time to do things.

INTERVIEWER: I'm sorry, this video tape is going to be around for a long time and not everyone will remember ASTP. 

REHDER: Okay, well ASTP (Army Special Training Program) was called inactive duty. The ASTP program was ROTC in college and when the Army felt like they needed to build up their strength, they called in ASTP program which was when they called me and the rest of the whole junior class that had signed up for ROTC which was about 400 or 500 men. They called us and sent us to Camp Walters, Texas, for our basic training.

INTERVIEWER: How long was basic training?

REHDER: Four months. We started in May and went through late August. As soon as we had completed that program, they did not need men in the service that had the training that we had, so they sent us back to State College into the ASTP program. So we really went back to college, took college courses for about six to eight months. We wore uniforms, answered to roll calls, saluted on campus. We were in the service, but we were in this special training program at college which delayed our going into service.

INTERVIEWER: And the year was?

REHDER: That was in '43 and '44. 

INTERVIEWER: And when were you commissioned as second lieutenant?

REHDER: Well after they sent us back to the ASTP program, some time in January or February '44, they called us back to service. They wanted us to go to the Fort Benning Officers' Candidate School, OCS. So we went down to Fort Benning, Georgia for four to five months, we received training to become officers and after that, they gave us a gold bar.

INTERVIEWER: How tough was the training?

REHDER: It was very tough. They gave us all kinds of problems that we would run into in wartime conditions. They spared nothing. If we were practicing taking a hill, we had airplanes to back us up, to bomb the hill first and then the artillery behind us would open up and bomb the hill. Then as Infantry men, we would attack the hill as Infantry men in the service.

INTERVIEWER: But you were not commissioned at that time?

REHDER: Oh no, that was training.

INTERVIEWER: Had you been sworn into service?

REHDER: Yes, we were sworn into service when we went into Texas to be trained.

INTERVIEWER: Well not everybody completed that training, did they? Were there some dropouts?

REHDER: Well, no, there weren't dropouts. Some of them changed into different programs. Some of them went in as clerical operators who did book work, something like that. All of them didn't go into Infantry training. The majority of them did.

INTERVIEWER: But you ended up with the crossed rifles and the second lieutenant bars?

REHDER: Right.

INTERVIEWER: And where were you stationed after OCS?

REHDER: Well after OCS, we went down to Fort Benning, Georgia, then Camp 
Walters where the second 66th Division was located and we were assigned to the 66th Division and then were given assignments whether we were assigned to a heavy weapons company or to a regular Infantry company. I was assigned to H Company which is a heavy weapons company. Of an H Company breakdown, it was mortars and machine guns and I was assigned to a mortars section in the 66th Infantry Division.

INTERVIEWER: Now this is probably autumn of '44.

REHDER: This is the summer of '44 when Patton and the rest of the forces made their invasion in France.

INTERVIEWER: When did you leave the United States?

REHDER: In November, they decided to send out Divisions overseas to England to be ready to help out with the invasion of Germany so we went in November to New Jersey to be shipped overseas. Then the first part of November or the last part of October, they shipped us to England on the George Washington which was a personnel carrier and it took us 12 days to sail the ocean, the Atlantic, with 36 other ships. Most of them were escort vessels, destroyers that were used to bomb submarines if you ran into them.

INTERVIEWER: What happens on shipboard during the time that you're traveling from the zone of interior to the Great Britain? How do you spend the 12 days?

REHDER: Being seasick for one which is typical, also playing poker and smoking cigarettes and sleeping. (Laughter) That was about the extent of it. There were no classes, no instructions that I can remember.

INTERVIEWER: And where did you arrive in England?

REHDER: Liverpool.

INTERVIEWER: And this is the beginning of winter 1944.

REHDER: Right.

INTERVIEWER: And how long were you barracked in England?

REHDER: About a month, from November to December.

INTERVIEWER: And what were the events towards the end of December?

REHDER: At the end of December, we would go out and do some experimental exercising and whatnot. We were in southern England. The weather was a little nippy, but we still marched and did the usual standing around waiting to be assigned to go our ship because we knew that something was happening. It was just when the Germans were making their breakthrough. They needed somebody. We were earmarked to go and relieve the 103rd Division who had been hit quite bad by the German strike in Belgium. They called us out to be shipped on December 24th to go to France.

INTERVIEWER: December 24, the day before Christmas?

REHDER: The day before Christmas, yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Tell us with particular detail, it's Christmas Eve day, and you're hustled on board ship. How did it happen?

REHDER: Well we were notified probably the 23rd to get our gear together. The heavy weapons company had vehicles to carry the mortars and to carry the machine guns and so they started loading those on another ship that was going with us. There were going to be two ships carrying our Division to Cherbourg and so we packed the day before and then the morning of the 24th, we started loading the ship to go to France.

INTERVIEWER: How well informed were you of the campaign that was going on, now called the Battle of the Bulge?

REHDER: We just knew that there was a big battle going on and that they needed another Infantry Division to go in and back up the Divisions that were having a hard time of it.

INTERVIEWER: How was the morale?

REHDER: The morale was fine. Just like I remember one time later on, an officer speaking to a platoon of about 35 people, said "We've got an attack going against the enemy and I doubt seriously if any of you will volunteer for this because it's going to be a very deadly attack. I would imagine that 90% of you will not come back, but we need to have this attack. We need you now to volunteer so I want every volunteer that wants to go into this to take one step forward" and every man in line stepped forward. That was the feeling that they always had going into a situation like that. I'm sorry you fellas might not be with me when this is over with, that's the thoughts that all the soldiers would have when they were going into combat.

INTERVIEWER: I'm going to delve back just a minute. The 66th Division, was it a newly formed Division or did it have a previous military history?

REHDER: No, this was a newly formed Division.

INTERVIEWER: Who was the commanding general, do you remember?

REHDER: I don't remember. 

INTERVIEWER: So it's the night before Christmas, the equipment has been loaded onto a ship, what was the name of the ship?

REHDER: Leopoldville, it was a Belgium convoy vessel that used to go between the Congo and England and Belgium carrying fruits and vegetables and whatnot. So when loaded, they found out that the cargo holds, there were just shelves and they just went in and sat down on the floor and anything they could find. The officers were sent up to where the staterooms were and were assigned eight men to a room. So that was the set up on the ship we had going over. 

INTERVIEWER: What time did you get on board the ship? Do you remember, morning, afternoon, evening.

REHDER: Evening, it was about 7:00 at night.

INTERVIEWER: Who fed you before you got on board?

REHDER: Well the Red Cross while we were standing around waiting to load was there with coffee and donuts, so we had plenty of coffee and donuts before we got on the ship.

INTERVIEWER: No steak dinner?

REHDER: No, no, we looked forward to a good Christmas dinner the next day, but we got shipped out.

INTERVIEWER: Were you accompanied with another ship?

REHDER: Yes, I forgot the name of the other ship. That was the ship that had the trucks and jeeps and machine guns and mortars and the drivers. Our company was divided up. Part of it went with the machinery and 81 of them went on to the ship I was on.

INTERVIEWER: So the personnel were on the Leopoldville, but your equipment including the mortars, were on the other ship. I think it was called the Cheshire.

REHDER: That's right. 

INTERVIEWER: So off you go.

REHDER: Off we go into the night and it was a windy, stormy night, but we slept fairly well. Of course, we had two destroyers going with us to protect us from submarines. The next morning when I woke up, I'm sure that I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure that I slept in my uniform. No reason to change around because all of my stuff was in the jeeps carrying the mortars. We got up and they did have in the dining room, the officers were fed in the dining room of the Leopoldville and while we were eating, I remember very distinctly a couple of explosions that we heard and realized that the destroyers that were with us were trying to bomb submarines that were out to get us. 

INTERVIEWER: And this is breakfast time on Christmas day.

REHDER: This is Christmas day.

INTERVIEWER: Well how long were you on the ship on Christmas day?

REHDER: Well it was supposed to be a six hour trip and we sailed about 9:00, but evidently this business of running into submarines on the way changed the direction or something and we were running late. We were only five miles outside of Cherbourg when we encountered opposition.

INTERVIEWER: And what was the nature of the opposition?

REHDER: Everything was very quiet. I was sound asleep on the bunk where eight of us were assigned and the explosion hit the ship, it was a torpedo, blew me out of the bunk I was in to the floor and we all hurried to go immediately to the places we were assigned. We had had a drill of where to go in case we needed to do something like that. So I went to the front of the ship, the bow of the ship where it was crowded solid with men and that was when I noticed there were two lifeboats that had already unloaded and were gone. The personnel of the ship, the people who ran the ship had deserted the ship.

INTERVIEWER: The crew got into the lifeboats and left?

REHDER: Yep, they were gone. So we were standing on the ship to see what would happen.

INTERVIEWER: The time is now...

REHDER: The time now is about 6:30, pitch black dark. The lights when we were hit, we had all the floodlights on on the ship and also over the loud speaker system, that this ship will not sink, do not worry.

INTERVIEWER: This is 6:30 in the evening on Christmas day? You've been at sea, what, almost 24 hours?

REHDER: No, we'd been in the ship for about 24 hours, but we sailed at 9:00 on the morning so we'd been on the ship for about nine hours.

INTERVIEWER: What was discipline like?

REHDER: Discipline was fine. The whole front of the ship was loaded with people shoulder to shoulder. Word got around that the torpedo had hit one of the compartments in the back of the ship where the men were and had blown the ship's level, tiers of wood where the men were sleeping, just torn it up completely. Many men died in that explosion and some of them, I remember a friend of mine that I knew, had a big timber land on him and he couldn't move. As water came into the ship, it crept up finally to his neck and just as it got to his mouth and nostrils, it lifted the heavy timber, and he got loose and crawled out.

INTERVIEWER: How many military men were on the ship?

REHDER: About 4000.

INTERVIEWER: And do you remember what was the casualty rate?

REHDER: 800. Approximately 800.

INTERVIEWER: Did you know any of the people personally?

REHDER: I knew the men that were in my company. We had in my company 91 men from company H on our ship. The total of 87 of them died. The rest of them were saved. We had three officers that died out of eight officers aboard the ship.

INTERVIEWER: Died in the explosion or died...

REHDER: Died in the sinking, went down with the ship. Our captain and two officers, three officers went down with the ship.

INTERVIEWER: Sounds like and is such a naïve question, but at this moment when you're standing shoulder to shoulder with a ship that's reported not to be sinking, but I'm sure after awhile, you began to realize is sinking.

REHDER: Yes, I had taken the mast and marked it with a star and I noticed that it kept getting further and further away from the star which told me that the ship was listing and listing badly. It took about two hours and it pulled away from that star very fast. But during that time, one of the destroyers that was protecting us, pulled alongside in the rough sea and tried to synchronize the two ships together. 

As they would get synchronized and come together, the men that were on the side where the ship was would jump across and jump onto the destroyer which banged against our ship. The only problem with that was, it was only temporary and then they would separate and some of the men would jump and fall into the chasm and then when the ships would come back together, it was all she wrote. So I witnessed several times, I just decided I was not going to jump on that destroyer and that was about the time I made up my mind to try to do something else.

INTERVIEWER: Again, the innocent question, how frightened were you? Or what emotion did you have?

REHDER: I really didn't have any emotion except wanting to get off the ship. That was the main thing. I knew I could jump to the destroyer if necessary, but I didn't want to do that. I had gone back to the stateroom and gotten my life preserver and a steel helmet and I was ready to do whatever I could. The thought struck me during that time to put over a lifeboat because no one had put over a single lifeboat on the whole ship because they said don't worry, just jump over to the destroyer. And here were the lifeboats lined up. 

So I yelled up to another officer, let's put one of these lifeboats over. We went over to the lifeboat that was sitting there and he was on one end and I was on the other. We yelled, "Let's get into the lifeboat. All of you that want to go on a lifeboat". I think six men came over on a boat that held 20 or 30 people. They just didn't want to go on a lifeboat, they just didn't trust it. I don't know, but only six or eight got into the boat. So we got in the boat, swung it over the side and it was already listing so that when we came down in the boat, the boat would hit the side and roll almost dumping us off the boat.

We'd push off and it would roll again so we had to keep pushing it away from the boat. Finally we hit the water and a big wave came along and picked us up. The man on the front undid the pulley, but the man in the back didn't do it so when the wave went out from under us, it turned us up on end and we all tumbled towards the front, but we didn't fall out. The next wave brought us back up. The man then cut the back rope so that freed us from the ship and we drifted down behind, the wind was blowing, so we drifted by the stern of the ship.

I remember one of the men asked me, "Lieutenant, is that ship going to sink?" I said, "You're damn right, it's sinking now". It wasn't too long after that I was told it was sunk, but we were out of sight of it by that time. We didn't have any paddles or oars or anything, we were just drifting.

INTERVIEWER: Merry Christmas. Could you see the shore?

REHDER: No, we couldn't see the shore and everybody in Cherbourg was celebrating Christmas and they didn't get anything out for two hours and just as we went by the stern of the ship, a tugboat came from Cherbourg and threw us a line and I thought well this is where we can get saved. I yelled, "Pull us in". And so we started pulling in toward the lifeboat and the lifeboat people yelled, "Go away, can't do it now". So we had to cast the line off and drift out into the English Channel. 

We'd only drifted for maybe a half a mile. A PT boat by this time had gotten out to us and it picked us up, came along side us. It was still rough water. As it came along side, the first man in our boat, in the lifeboat, dove for the PT boat and he missed it, fell in the water and right away one of the PT Navy men dove right in, pulled him out. So I made up my mind, I had to dive that boat so when my time came, the boat came alongside and I did a swan dive and hit flat. I hit on the deck. A couple of sailors helped me up and started laughing at me. I was wondering why they were laughing at me. I didn't realize that they had just painted the boat gray and I was gray from head to foot (laughter), but I was happy and gray. 

They got me down into the hole of the PT boat and I began to get nauseated after a while and went to the restroom there and the next thing I knew, the water was quiet, the ship was quiet, no waves or anything and I was wrapped around the commode. I evidently had passed out. I heard them say from shore, "Send up the living and the injured first, leave the dead there." So I knew the ship had sunk. When I went up to the dock, the dock was lined with ambulances with the doors open. It looked like there must have been 50 ambulances with the doors open.

INTERVIEWER: Was the destroyer an American destroyer or British?

REHDER: I don't recall. It could have been either one.

INTERVIEWER: What about the PT boat? Was that an American crew?

REHDER: I don't know, I couldn't tell you.

INTERVIEWER: But at least you're on shore.

REHDER: Yep.

INTERVIEWER: Did you walk off or were you carried off?

REHDER: I walked off. Everybody that was there walked off. We went to some kind of gym where they gave us clothes if we needed them to warm up with and some food if we needed it. I had an impulse. I said to one of the fellas next to me, I said, "I think somebody ought to pray about this". So I got up on one of the tables and I asked for their attention and I issued a little prayer for the guys that weren't with us. Several people came over to me and thanked me for doing that. That was the end of that experience.

From there, they shipped us to Cherbourg, we reorganized in about two weeks and then went to combat.

INTERVIEWER: Was there some sort of service held for the, on the seashore, for the troops that were lost?

REHDER: They held, some time during the week, they held a service with a burial for the ones that they had. There were 800, 790-800 men were drowned or killed or missing.

INTERVIEWER: Including most of Company H, your company?

REHDER: Yes, most of them.

INTERVIEWER: How did your company reform? How did you get replacements?

REHDER: They were shipped in from repo depots, they came over and just filled up. Other people were already there and waiting to go. We were shipped...when we were reformed, they shipped us out. When Patton broke out and went through from the shore after the invasion, he divided the German forces. About 75,000 of them went to the south where they had submarine pens. They formed up a barrier around that and also, there's another town there on the Brittany peninsula, we tried to take that city and it cost them so dearly, they decided to leave the Germans backed up at Saint ______ and go ahead and push to the north of Germany and that's why we went down to Saint ______. We held them in, they weren't going anywhere. It was just like World War I, we were dug in on one side and they were dug in on the other. We would shoot at them when we could and they would shoot at us when they could.

INTERVIEWER: You were telling me about a situation in which enemy troops were spotted and you were....

REHDER: Yes, that was the kind of action that we got into. When we set up on our line, put the mortars in action, we would pick up areas in front of us. We call it target 10, target 12, target 15 and so forth and we would shoot the mortar at that spot. So if we saw anybody around that, any Germans, we would shoot at that target. So one day, the phone rang to the OP, the observation post, that was watching in front of us. He says, "Lieutenant, I think I see some Germans down around target 41. Can we fire on them?" I said "Since we're so short on ammunition, I'll have to get permission from the company commander to do that". 

So I called the company commander at headquarters and asked him that we thought we saw some Germans around target 41 and could we shoot at them. He said, "Well, you know Lieutenant, we're short on HE Light. You can use HE Heavy". This is used generally for bunkers and houses. It goes in, hits the top of the house, but doesn't go off until it gets inside. So if you're shooting HE Heavy out in the open, it will go in the ground and explode.

So I said well we'd have some fun anyway and yelled to the mortar crews and they set up. I told them to set up target 41, throw pattern of nine shells, so that was 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, which covers a pretty good square. They followed that and OP called back and said, "Lieutenant, that was a good shot. They're running down the valley". So I told them to fire down the valley at the traverse. After a while he called back and said that either we got them all or they all got away because he couldn't see them anymore. So I hung up the phone.

Ten minutes later, the phone rang and I picked up the phone and said, "Lieutenant Rehder on this end". He said, "Lieutenant what have you been firing at?". I said, "Who's this talking". He said, "This is Major Bodine, your battalion commander. What have you been firing at." I said well we picked up a target around 41 and fired. He said, "Target 41, that was no damn Germans, that was me. You couldn't hit a bull in the tail with a bucketful full of ammo". So we got a good laugh out of that because that was about the only laugh we could get Every time he came back and went out in front of the line, he'd call me up, "Lieutenant Rehder, I'm going out".

INTERVIEWER: So it really was at that point a stationary situation. 

REHDER: Yes, it was stationary. We were stationary for about five weeks.

INTERVIEWER: This is 1945 in winter, spring?

REHDER: We started there in January and stayed until about June in that setup. After the Armistice was signed, which was about that same time, we got orders to move to Marseilles. So the Division moved to Marseilles, a little town outside of Marseilles called Orleans, a very renowned little town that was known for artistry and we set up camp there. The Division, the whole Division set up camp to take care of the troops. The war in Germany was over with, but we still were fighting Japan. So as the troops would come to Marseilles, we would take care of them, feed and entertain them and put them on ships to send them to Japan.

So we did that for three months. That got to the place when Japan quit. I got word that they were going to send us up to the German mountains to just get things straightened out. I didn't want to go to the mountains in the cold weather and whatnot. I wanted some fun and happiness if I could find it. So I caught a plane flying to Paris and went to Paris to headquarters of public service where they assigned troops to entertain the people. I asked if I could get transferred to that type of organization. They said yes.

The next week, orders came down and sent me to Paris. So I was in Paris for four to five months, enjoying it.

INTERVIEWER: What was your assignment?

REHDER: As people like Bob Hope would come over and entertain the troops, his entourage, we would take them and put them in trucks and send them to Italy or to Germany, wherever we had troops. That was just a job to entertain and feed them and whatnot. We had plenty of people, Betty Hutton, Mickey Rooney, I'm just trying to think of all those people. But they would come over and we would send them out to entertain the troops.

INTERVIEWER: And you got this position simply by requesting it. Ask and you shall receive. Do you remember specifically where you were, how did you hear and what did it feel when V-E Day was announced, the war in Europe was over.

REHDER: We were still holding the Germans back and I remember some Infantry troops were assigned to go in and capture the Germans and put them in holding places and whatnot. We were just ordered to clean up and get organized so that we could move. It was decided that everybody was celebrating so I don't know where they got the cognac, which is a favorite drink in France, a liquor. There was cognac, vodka, Scotch from Scotland and we had plenty of Coca Cola. That was the main fun drink to have so everybody was drinking cognac and Coca Cola. They had this big open field. We all went to celebrate. 

Everybody got drunk as a skunk and I ran into our chaplain. He asked if I had seen his assistant. I said that I hadn't, was he missing. He said, "He's missing from me. The last time I saw him, he was drunk as a coot and wouldn't know which way home was" (laughter).

INTERVIEWER: How was the chaplain?

REHDER: He was sober.

INTERVIEWER: When was the end of your military career?

REHDER: Well I stayed in Paris until November, summertime, September, October, November in Paris and then I got news that my father had died and so the Red Cross put in a request to send me back home. I flew back home. From Newfoundland, I took three different planes trying to get back. The happiest I have ever been was when the wheels of that plane touched down in Washington. An experience of happiness. I really enjoyed getting back to the States.

INTERVIEWER: I was thinking of the crew of the Leopoldville who were civilians. Had they been military, that would have been desertion under fire.

REHDER: Yes, they were civilian workers from the Congo.

INTERVIEWER: Have there been reunions of the survivors of the Leopoldville?

REHDER: Yes, there have been, but I have not attended.

INTERVIEWER: Once was enough?

REHDER: Once was enough. After I got out of the service, I didn't re-enlist, I didn't go into the Reserves or anything like that. I spent three years and figured that was my time.

INTERVIEWER: And that was your first visit to Europe, is that correct?

REHDER: Right.

INTERVIEWER: I'm going to focus into the camera a little bit, tell us what you're wearing in this picture.

REHDER: Combat Infantry badge which means that you have served time in actual combat with the enemy and it shows that you've been face to face with your enemy and engaged in combat which we did. I remember clearly being shot at with artillery several times when we were in France.

INTERVIEWER: The next thing I'm going to do is what I've done with previous interviewees and that is to ask you to look right into the camera and realize several things. One you will never be a day older than you are today. The miracle of video taping will always endure, that this is how you will look into the future. You've learned so many things. What a frightening experience you went through and others. Would you take a minute and look into the camera and address yourself now to your grandchildren or your great grandchildren and tell them what did you all learn from the war experiences and what would you advise them.

REHDER: Well I think that one thing I learned was discipline. We were told to be somewhere at such and such a time, and how we were to go, we obeyed. Discipline. We did what we were told to do and when we did it, we were comfortable and we didn't worry. We let somebody else do the worrying for us. That was our job. We didn't try to out-guess our commanding officers. It's just one of those things that you learn to do and accepted it.

INTERVIEWER: Would you like to say anything in conclusion?

REHDER: Just that I thank God that I got through it. I am surprised to find that after I went through that experience, while I was in France, I could not drive my jeep over a bridge of water without getting nauseated, just looking down at the water. That was one situation that I carry with me. Fortunately, I got over that by getting back in the States here and going with friends in boats fishing. I finally learned that I could do it without getting worried. There are certain things that get earmarked into your mind. I'll always know how to shoot a gun. I like to hunt. I now realize when I hear a gun, it sparks me inside. It's like hearing a siren. You know that something's wrong, something has to be taken care of.

INTERVIEWER: If you were physically able, and the country needed your services in the military, would you go back voluntarily?

REHDER: At my age, I wouldn't. I just could not, I don't think, keep up with the pace that has to be done. If I could be of use in any other way other than physical, I would be more than happy to. I never regretted serving in the service. I've never run into anybody that said I wish I could get out of this thing. I never saw anybody in the service that way. They were ready to do what they were trying to do and that's what it meant to almost all of us.

INTERVIEWER: Thank you Lieutenant Rehder.

REHDER: Thank you very much. I'm glad to talk to you.