Interview of Frank R. Hutton
Transcript Number 026

INTERVIEWER: This is Joe DeGenaro and today is Saturday, May 27, 2000, Memorial Day weekend. We are at the Barbie Branch Library in Oak Island, North Carolina. We are interviewing World War II veteran Frank Hutton Jr., member of the United States Air Force Corps of Engineers. He served in the Armed Forces from October 1942 to October 1945. This interview is part of the Brunswick County World War II Veteran's Oral History Preservation Project. Good morning Mr. Hutton.

HUTTON: Good morning, sir.

INTERVIEWER: We'll start with a little personal history; where you were born, where you went to school and some information about your parents and what you were doing before the war.

HUTTON: Okay. I was born April the 13th, about three o'clock, 1921, 607 South Menhose Street. And we lived there for a while and moved out to ___ Park. I was raised up in school in Greensboro. I also was in the grade school and I also got into the high school in Greensboro Senior High. During that I was thinking about being an architect. And after that I went to state college and didn't do too well. Then went back home and started working in the fence shop at _____. And my father came in and said, "Son, if you want to choose what service you are, you'd better volunteer". So we got that going, and I volunteered for the Air Corps in Greensboro. Then I was... from there I was shipped out. I remember the day that I took up the old... and then you say, "You are in", so we were in. Then I was shipped into Camp Coral and got some basic training there. And then I was shipped... from there I was shipped to Greenwood, Mississippi, which was a place where they trained further on the BT13A. It was a little small plane that was stepping up to learn the pilots how to fly. So, after that I got to be a dispatcher and ___ didn't like the way I made out reports; which I wasn't too good a speller. He sent me to the... into the ___ . So when I was in a _____ session, I didn't like it. They said, "If you don't like the outfit, take it to the chaplain. Which I did. So, I told the chaplain I didn't like the outfit. He said, "Come on with me". So he went to headquarters; and when he went to headquarters, he brought my file out. He said, "You're going out of that outfit." You're dog-gone right, I did. I was on the way to Atlantic City, New Jersey, for the overseas training up there. And walked the boardwalk and __ "Gee Mom, I want to go home." And which I learned the training; tying knots in the pants, clubbing over the head, getting the ___ to buy in case of a... case of a... you got in the ship. So after I got the basic training there and then I went to New York and put on a ship. And they don't tell you were you're going. You just go and Roosevelt made a rule that anybody that's over there that went AWOL, or in the process, automatic eliminated. Because he meant business. That's one thing you can not do. So when we boarded the ship... and he was a ___. And we was to go to Hawaiian Islands. To me we never had it so good (laughs). And we were in the convoy with several ships... and when they'd toot, they all go one way. And if they got turned and they toot toot to back the other way and made the other turn. And finally we had one episode that they thought they spotted something and sent some depth charges down. But we wore the life jackets most all the time. And went up on deck and it's there that there was no smoking in there, no lights, or no nothing. Finally we got to... straight up to Morocco and they said that we came through there late at night. Then I got into Oran, Algiers. And when I got to Oran, Algiers we had got off the boat and they say somebody had a pass to go to Oran. So I went to Oran. I came back; I was sick. That place was dirty. It was filthy. So then I was shipped to Casablanca. That's when I got into my outfit 2076 Engineer Utility Attachment. And then... this picture was taken in ____ Algiers. I did not take too many pictures in Casablanca. They changed the bases in Casablanca. We hired civilians to work with us. We used Arab labor. It's, one that that was very fascinating to me was we had shovels. We had a shovel that was made of steel. We had a shovel that had a lip on it. They went to fight for that shovel with the lip on it because it was lighter. And one day they told me to take this load of lumber... scrap lumber out to get rid of it. So I drove the truck out there in the field and I watched a bunch of Arabs looking at me. So they came running towards me. So I got out of the truck. They got up on top of the truck and started fighting for the wood. And I mean to tell you... finally they got the wood off the truck and then I got back on my truck and went back to the base. So that lasted for a while in Casablanca. We had those gliders. They used gliders to bring the people in during that time because they didn't have the parachute __. So, then I was... from there we were shipped to __ Algiers on convoy. And they made the convoy. That's when I really learned how to drive a truck. It's... a song that says "Once you go up on a hill; you go down on hill." We learned to shift the gears and everything. So then in __ Algiers we maintained this air base which was for the purpose of the French learning how to fly our airplanes. And after a while... and once there, on St. Patrick's Day, I decided to go experiment in the Mediterranean Sea. In the Mediterranean Sea, there wasn't no sand on the beaches. It was little rock pebbles. It was beautiful. I got into the water on St. Patrick's Day... I got out of there right fast! So that lasted for a while. In the meantime, I had a little conflict with one of the friends of our operative involving when I asked him where my knife was. They were drinking. They thought that I was accusing. And one guy pulled up a German Lugar and stuck it in my guts. I'm not going to quote the words, "I live to die" is what he said. But anyway I posed and looked him straight in the eye. And I didn't blink my eyes. I looked at him in the eyes. I reckon he put the gun down. I... "you're not worth killing. I want to go home." Well, we were separated. But that... it's very touchy for me to tell the story. And seven months later I was shipped out with him. I know his name but I'm not going to quote it. And he came up and shook my hand... said he was the best friend I ever had. "You did not turn me in." So, we were very good friends after that. And so we decided to go on to Italy. Up to ___ . So we went to Tunis and got on a ship going towards Italy. And there wasn't too much fancy places out there. We just went straight ahead and we landed in Naples, Italy. But we could not get into port, so I stayed with the boat and the rest of them went into Italy and they... they got VD. And by the way, we always had a lecture every six months. About the... how to take care of ourselves. And so... went in the _____ and was listening to the lecture. He put a rubber glove on and he shaked it at me. And that was one of the... it was on the 'Stars and Stripes' which we would __. We'd enjoy it. And I'm going to backtrack one minute, just a minute. But when I got to Casablanca, Roosevelt, Stalin, Churchill had a meeting there just before I got there. So, I'll go back to __ Italy. So, when I got to Italy I stayed in the boat. Finally we got to port so we decided to go down and make the best out of it... Naples. So I went to Pompeii. Pompeii was a town that the ______ had a sex life. I'm not going into details. You can read between the lines. So, we decided to go up to the volcano that destroyed Pompeii. I went up to the top of it. It's like going up ashes. And then I got up at the top and there was a British guy says... he said he was going to have a spot of tea. I'm going to have to backtrack one more time. I forgot about the malaria in Casablanca. And then I got... mosquito bit me. And that's when I knew I had malaria. And when I had malaria, they shipped me to a British hospital. And then I ... "Hey, Limey." They didn't call me Limey, they called me, "Hey, Yank! You want a shot of quinine?" I said, "Yeah, I guess so." So, they gave me a shot in a shot glass. And then they said, "Okay, now you get your sweet to sweeten your mouth." So after that, visitors came in and talked about th he news about what was going on. I contact ______ in England and he had died of a stroke in England. So... get back to Naples Italy. So, I decided that when we went up to... and looked down the volcano. It was quite exciting to me, so we decided we'd get out of there and went to Rome. And when we got into Rome, Simon said, " you've never had it so good." (Laughs). So we went in one airport and then we would transfer south of Rome in an airport that the ____ outfit of American GI's built for the Italians, which today, I think is the main airport going into Rome. After we got into Rome... after we stayed there, we... I took the...__ I enjoyed going to the Vatican City and looking at the St. Peter statue. It was worn down so well that his toes were flattened by people kissing the toes of his statue. So then after that we... I stayed in Rome for quite a while and then we had to move out. So, we went to Rimni. R.I.M.N.I., Italy. It was on the northeast side of Italy. That was an air base that we maintained. And we used Italians to do the work. We had some airplanes to crash and where they crash they use foam to put them out. We had to get them off the airport and we took a bulldozer and moved it and the plane was not out. The plane was still burning, with the cover of foam on top of it. And after that we... I was... stayed there for a while and then all of a sudden, April the 13th was my birthday... I heard that Roosevelt died. And the ___ , "Who in the heck is Harry?" All of a sudden everything busted loose... everything busted loose. We had Air Force scattered up and down Italy. They all took off and went over and bombed the... the... and that was the end of Germany. So, I did not have enough points to go down back to the United States so they sent me to a different outfit overseas.

INTERVIEWER: They had a point system to where you would build up points...

HUTTON: Huh?

INTERVIEWER: They had a point system to where you would build up points, and everything.

HUTTON: Yeah, that's right. You had to have a certain amount of points to go back to the states. I think I only had 79. No, I didn't have but 9 (laughs).

INTERVIEWER: How many did you need to get back to the states? Was it for a leave, or for good?

HUTTON: No. That was for good. And then they sent me to an outfit and since went overseas. And they were just fussing and griping. And you guess me... been over two years... and you don't think I didn't tell them something (laughs). And one guy said to me, "How can you stand it?" I said, "I'll tell you what... the way I'll stand it... I've made up my mind I am going to stay here 'til the end of this war. So we was shipped back to Naples and back to... on the boat and went back across the Atlantic Ocean to Panama. We were very cautious because we didn't know whether the German submarines got their __ or not. So we used the same methods that we used going across. So when we landed in Panama Canal... and the same strange bomb was ___. As a GI, I said, "Aw, that's a bunch of...", you know, we had too many rumors. So we didn't take anything for granted. And then the second bombers __ before we got off the boat. We were put in a holding pen. And then they said we cannot go to Panama City and until the next day... I didn't have no money... no nothing. Then they took me to Panama City, Panama. And one thing the man told me, "No use wearing a raincoat down here because the humidity will get you so wet your clothes get wet." But anyway I went into bars and they'd say, "Hey yank. Have a drink. Have a drink." I don't know how I got back to the boat, but I did. The ship was turned around. We went back through the canal and the MP's was picking up the stragglers and putting them back on the boat on the way to the land of Hershey and then the North Carolina coast and they had the radio going. And believe it or not it was nice... on the station WBIG in Greensboro. And it's no longer existent. And I landed in New York and we called and Daddy said, "I know you are in New York. Why didn't you call early." So then I was shipped from there to Fort Bragg and in Fort Bragg was not ready to go out yet and I was assigned to Seymour Johnson Field in Goldsboro. So I went home. And about four or five of us got up enough money and rode a cab to Greensboro. And he'd better be at my house at 2109 __ Road. And Daddy said, " How did you get here?" I said we... "I hired a cab. Why? (Laughs)." So, when I got there Daddy says, "You there, you're here." And says, "You go back to Seymour Johnson. You get a medic discharge. And I did. And they examined my ears and they said, "Do you realize you could have got out during the war?" I said, "Maybe so, but what would I have done then?" So, after that they finally gave me the discharge, and I went home. What I learned in the Corps of Engineers is, there's something... I got the benefit of a college education because ___ . So I built homes. And then I ended up building buildings in Greensboro. And also I learned the French drain in North Africa which was a... like a terracotta pipe put over the foundation and the drain, which is in one of the buildings that I built in Greensboro, today.

INTERVIEWER: So a lot of the training that you had in the military helped you when you got out.

HUTTON: You're doggone right it did.

INTERVIEWER: Yes it did. Yes, okay.

HUTTON: One time they were going to break up the outfits and put (tape out). But we were in the Engineers. What we got then was the people that was you know what . They sent them to our outfit to see what we could do with them. So, it was a right compromise for me. I couldn't opt to it . I look back on it and I have no regrets about it.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. do you remember some of the... when you were overseas, the food that you ate and was it all sea rations or was it... sometimes you get a regular meal, sometimes you get sea rations?

HUTTON: Yeah. Let me go back to North Africa.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

INTERVIEWER: We had... there was the mess kits. And we had wind. We had sand. And the sand would blow in our food, but when it got being the worst most... what food we didn't eat, the Arabs were lining up taking what food we had in the mess kits to eat. They were hungry, so that's the reason I don't want to waste no food... because.. (tape out)________. To me it was one of the most _____ times I ever had, in North Africa and Italy, so I look back on it and I made it. And during the time, we were really out of the service, we could go to schools and I took the job on learning how to build houses as a vocative training after the service.

INTERVIEWER: After the service. 

HUTTON: Yeah we had a... and some of them went to school... went to colleges. My brothers who were in the other squadron in Iraq and they took to the University of North Carolina schools.

INTERVIEWER: Now did you... when you were overseas, did you get a chance to speak to some of the civilian people that were in the area, just to talk to them and kind of... or were you restricted to the base mostly?

HUTTON: (Laughs). Yeah. Comme ce, comme sa. (laughs) Well, we stumbled around. We got... let's see if I can quote some of their language; and we... I learned some... __ Muhammad; come here. It was one of the words they used and they... I never forgot the time that they fought for that word (laughs).

INTERVIEWER: And what about in Italy... when you were in Italy?

HUTTON: Well, in Italy we used a... hand me the picture of that truck in Italy... no, the other one. That's it. We used civilians... we used civilians to load our trucks with shovels. This is the north of Italy... of Rome. Which we use... and they would load the trucks and we would also... we'd patch the holes in the airports with the gravel. By the way, I want to backtrack one more thing. This reminded me of something. That... we had these airplanes in Italy, see, and in North Africa. And there's a big crust of goo and the airplanes would sit on the runway. And they would sink in ___ and dirt and hit that mud down below. So we had to jack up the airplane's wings and put gravel in there so we could get the airplanes back in running shape. And... it was very ___ for me, but I enjoyed it. But when you look at it at the time... at the present time... oh, I don't know (laughs).

INTERVIEWER: Let's take a look at this picture here that you had brought in of you in front of the truck and just give us a little bit of a brief background on it.

HUTTON: Yeah. That was one of the trucks that I drove.

INTERVIEWER: Where was that?

HUTTON: That was my truck I drove.

INTERVIEWER: Was that in Italy?

HUTTON: That's in North Africa. That truck went through North Africa and Italy too. That was one truck that was assigned to me. And by the way, that when we got on the truck, the first thing we were required to do was lift the hood and check the oil and be sure that everything was right before we fired up.

INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

HUTTON: We had a Ranger to blow up. And the first thing he did... and I think it was one of my trucks, and he opened my hood and saw oil. Well, then he... on the stick. So, that was that. That was it. So, my speed was not to exceed over 45 miles an hour at all times. If we went any faster we blew up the engines, 'cause it was all geared down and all four wheel drive, too.

INTERVIEWER: What were the roads like when you were driving... were they tough to drive on?

HUTTON: Huh?

INTERVIEWER: The roads... were they tough to drive on?

HUTTON: Well, in North Africa, the Corps of Engineers, "Stop. Take the bulldozer and make them load up ___. Let's go." So they... we weren't in that operative. We maintained the air bases. But it was very incredible. And we'd renovate those airports in North Africa. We took the... they had the ___. We took the grates and put the steel mats down. So we use __ anyways. And sometimes we had a rain. When the steel mats would stick in the mud we had to pull them back up, roll them down and clip them together. Some of the steel mats you see today on the highways where the highway patrols come between those today.

INTERVIEWER: When you were in Casablanca... how long were you in Casablanca?

HUTTON: I was there about maybe... of course there's too much of that was in the hospital. It might have been three or four months.

INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. Did you get to see any of Casablanca other than the....

HUTTON: Oh, heck yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

HUTTON: I was... it was ___. And there was another place that was restricted from us. We could not go into any Arab towns. Such were off limits for American GI's because the Arabs have respect for their women and I don't blame them. And so, that way... I understand that one of the GI's got messed up and went to the wrong way and... I'm not going into detail. Read between my lines.

INTERVIEWER: Did you get to taste any of the food in Casablanca at all... or were you mostly restricted to the food that you had in the military?

HUTTON: Oh, no. There was a guy in the outfit we called Flash Gordon, because he always had something going all the time. He told me... he said, "Hut, get your truck. We're going somewhere and get some decent food. So I said, "All right." So I got the truck and went down to the naval base. "What would you like to have?" I looked at him and said, "Wouldn't you like to have apple pie with ice cream on it? Remember all the C- rations we've been eating?" Oh my gosh! I never forgot that day (laughs). But then they told us later on they said, "What happened down at the naval base?" Said, "They didn't want us down there anymore." (Laughs) But the Navy had... they had their stuff. They really had their... then they really did all right. And it's... and I remember the theater in Casablanca... called the Fox Theater... F.O.X. Theater in Casablanca.

INTERVIEWER: You got to go to the theater?

HUTTON: No, I did not.

INTERVIEWER: Okay, but you remember seeing it in the city.

HUTTON: Yeah. We had the... one of the GI's told me... said, "I want you to go to the church with me." He was a Catholic. So I had a chance to go in a Catholic church in North Africa. And I... I followed his directions (laughs). Which I was a Methodist. And which... finally he got away from the operative and when I got in there they had... and __ really took advantage of it. I went to the coliseum and walked all through it. I took the best advantage of every thing I could possibly...

INTERVIEWER: Well, good. Then you got to see a lot of the city while you were there and you got to take advantage of that. That's good.

HUTTON: I absolutely did.

INTERVIEWER: Yes, and were you able to, while you were overseas, attend church services... or was it just once and a while, or was it available to you?

HUTTON: What's that?

INTERVIEWER: Church services. Church. In addition to the Catholic church that you went to.

HUTTON: No. I don't think that we had too much service.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

HUTTON: But I regret one thing... that I did not go to the Vatican City when the Pope had Christmas Eve mass. I still regret that. And also... in Rome that... we had this store... and USO had programs and these opera singers was singing and boy they were really something. And I enjoyed... I made the best of it. And I could not have asked any better. 

INTERVIEWER: Mr. Hutton, the photos that you showed us during the interview... the camera that you were using to shoot the photos, tell us a little bit about, you know, how you got it and took it with you overseas.

HUTTON: That was a 35 millimeter camera. And we were not supposed to have any cameras with us. I don't know how I got it. I got it overseas. And I took pictures all over North Africa and Italy and I've got quite a collection. And it's precious to me. But when I was going on back to the United States and they were giving us a __ inspection of our stuff. I hid the camera in one of the supply boxes and picked it up at Fort Bragg.

INTERVIEWER: So, that's how you got the camera back to the United States?

HUTTON: Yeah. Through a supply box. It was already packed up at supplies and it was sent back to Fort Bragg. 

INTERVIEWER: And although you do not have it here with you now, you tell me that you still have the camera.

HUTTON: I still have the camera, but I think it's obsolete now because the films are different and stuff is different now. And I really prefer ___ ___find no films or nothing.

INTERVIEWER: You also mentioned that while you were in the service you were able to meet different people from different parts of the country.

HUTTON: Oh yeah. I figure about six of them are from Brooklyn, New York. And half and half from North Carolina. And don't you think we had the Civil War going every day (laughs). And they'd say, "You are. You are. You are." And it was just a lot of... we just happy go lucky. We were just having a lot of fun.

INTERVIEWER: And you were to tell different stories about the different parts of the country where you live... like you were able to tell them about North Carolina and they could tell you about New York and California or wherever they came from.

HUTTON: Well, ___ the tobacco a little bit and that's about all. I started picking up smoking in the Army and when I did I was... and they practically gave us the cigarettes... for almost nothing during that time. And then I picked up smoking the pipe. Then when I got back to home, the doctor said, "You quit smoking." And one day I didn't feel like smoking. I set the cigar down. He did say I picked it up. I puffed it and I never smoked again.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now when you were working with the people in your unit every day, try, if you can, to describe a typical day... what you did on your job and how it went from when you first got up in the morning and then you went through the day to do your work and then you'd finish and then go and have your meal in the evening and then retire.

HUTTON: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So, if you can... try to start from the... the very early on when you first started your job in the morning.

HUTTON: Well, there were times in the morning when we had roll call as usual. And then there was a... they told you... if you had to go to the doctor they'd let us go there. And so... We'd be assigned to certain vehicles. One day we got a bulldozer stuck in the mud and had to get another bulldozer to pull us out (laughs). And that was that mud in North Africa.

INTERVIEWER: And so you'd work the morning until your noon-time lunch came... you'd build the airport, the runways, the buildings?

HUTTON: Well, that was all beside the runway.

INTERVIEWER: Right... the buildings...

HUTTON: And just like I said, it was just crusty mud on top of goo on top of the mud. And like I said about the airplane... they'd come down and also we...let's see, by the way, I was sitting in the barracks one day and I said ___ to the outfit... I said, "I have a feeling that we're going to invade Normandy today" and sure enough, we did. And you looked up and said, "When we going home?" (laughs) "When we going home?" And I had a feeling.

INTERVIEWER: So, you would get news of other things in the war while you were in the base. You would be getting information about the war as it was going on elsewhere, too. Some anyway.

HUTTON: Oh yeah. We had the 'Stars and Stripes' and we got the information. And... we looked forward to comics about Sad Sack and his problems... and it was more or less sense of humor in everywhere.

INTERVIEWER: Where you able to write letters to people back home after you finished working and did you get mail coming in?

HUTTON: Oh yeah. We had a certain number that was our address number and we put it on our... our name and our rank and our number and we wrote 'free' and the mail was sent directly. We didn't have no postage. No nothing. The mail was delivered to our home back in the states.

INTERVIEWER: And they knew what... you would get mail coming in and they would tell you about...

HUTTON: Yeah. We had mail call. And it was shipped by certain numbers that we were assigned to that we used and they brought our mail to that number and then they come to our address, which was no problem. And as a matter of fact, I've got a letter I found and my signature has not changed since World Was II.

INTERVIEWER: Well, did you have any entertainment while you were on the base? Did they have any kind of entertainment for you... for the troops? On the base.

HUTTON: Well, there was a USO had the shows and all that stuff. Well, it was all right in a way, but the best entertainers were in the USO in Italy and that was professional opera singing. And ___ they were something. I don't know lyrics __. And I regret not going to one of the operas over there. Really, I tried to make the best of everything over there.